Special Session - Tax Reform - Interview with Joe Mapes

[00:00:10] Welcome to The Pelican Brief, I am your host David Tatman and this is part two of episode one where we sit down with Joe Mapes and talk to him about some of the things that are being proposed in the upcoming special session of the Louisiana legislature relative to tax reform in Louisiana.

[00:00:49] We had the first part of our conversation last episode, if you didn't get a chance to listen to it you may want to because it may be important to have things in context and we again are trying to inform and communicate and educate our listeners and hopefully you all will engage with us.

[00:01:10] We invite anybody to come on to the show to talk about their perspective, their whatever they want to talk about relative to this conversation.

[00:01:21] So now we're going to hear from Joe Mapes in part two of The Pelican Brief, season three, episode one, part two.

[00:01:33] I will just say this, I haven't had a claim in ten years.

[00:01:39] My homeowners doubled and I have a new roof and my homeowners doubled and my auto insurance doubled.

[00:01:47] And so I keep high limits, I don't keep the regular limits but I mean think, I can just tell you this and you and I both do really well.

[00:01:56] I can tell you that it's probably 50% the amount now that I, that I, that my insurance increase is probably 50% of my income tax.

[00:02:06] Yeah.

[00:02:07] So, you know, if you want to save me money just give me that money back for insurance and tax me on that.

[00:02:14] I'm probably at seven and a half percent.

[00:02:16] And I wish we could resolve this or fix this with some legislation that we could pass but I think we're beyond that.

[00:02:22] I think the bills that have passed that, that have hurt the insurance industry have taken their effect.

[00:02:28] They're set in now.

[00:02:29] And all we can hope is that the reinsurance industry across the pond, down in the Bahamas and over in the UK continues to take the risk on us and, you know, insure us.

[00:02:40] Well, and what just happened with Milton coming across Florida, it affects everybody.

[00:02:44] We no longer live in a world.

[00:02:45] Especially since it's in the southeast but the whole country, you know.

[00:02:48] Yeah, and you work in the insurance industry too because you do Farm Bureau.

[00:02:52] Right.

[00:02:52] So I see Sandy at all the, you know, meetings that we get together.

[00:02:54] It's mainly her but, yeah.

[00:02:55] Yeah.

[00:02:56] Well, I mean, I know you.

[00:02:56] I'm more of the federation.

[00:02:58] Right.

[00:02:58] Which is the cooperative of farmers and ranchers.

[00:03:00] Right.

[00:03:01] And in 86, our people in rural areas had trouble getting insurance of any type.

[00:03:06] And so we created an insurance company called Farm Bureau Insurance.

[00:03:09] So it's – and I thank you for the opportunity to explain this because a lot of people think that Farm Bureau is just an insurance company.

[00:03:15] Right.

[00:03:15] And then other people might think that the insurance company is the tail wagging the dog.

[00:03:20] But there's a new building on Corsi Boulevard in Baton Rouge.

[00:03:24] Yes.

[00:03:24] And it was an expensive building.

[00:03:27] Yeah.

[00:03:27] Okay.

[00:03:27] It was – it was like $22 million.

[00:03:30] Yeah.

[00:03:31] Plus the land was $8 million.

[00:03:33] And our insurance company didn't pay one penny for it.

[00:03:36] So when you're riding down the road looking up at it, don't say, look what this insurance company bought.

[00:03:40] Our farmers started saving in 1960 and they saved cash for that sucker.

[00:03:45] And I always tell that story whenever I can.

[00:03:47] Yeah.

[00:03:47] So if you're in Louisiana and you want to come to Baton Rouge and go down Corporate Boulevard, it is an amazing facility.

[00:03:52] And I know that –

[00:03:53] I said Corsi earlier, but it's corporate.

[00:03:55] Yeah.

[00:03:55] And it's a beautiful building.

[00:03:57] Lots of good facilities.

[00:03:58] And I'm – you know, Farm Bureau is – but on the insurance side is an important player in the insurance industry.

[00:04:04] We're the largest domestic in Louisiana.

[00:04:06] And that's always been our hue and cry that, you know, we can't go to a legislator or a governor and say, listen, if you pass this law or don't pass this law, we're leaving this state.

[00:04:16] We can't say that.

[00:04:17] Big companies like Allstate can do it because they can underwrite their losses from Louisiana and the other 49 states' books of business that they have.

[00:04:24] We're here.

[00:04:25] Each Farm Bureau insurance is standalone in this state, you know, per state across the country.

[00:04:30] Yeah.

[00:04:30] And look, all of my experiences with Farm Bureau have been first class.

[00:04:35] They are – they're a little different because they care about the people they – you know, they really have a connection with the people that they insure.

[00:04:42] Yeah, they really do.

[00:04:43] And so I'm not saying that anyone else does – doesn't, but I'm just saying that connection is closer because you're likely a member – you know, you're a member of the Farm Bureau and you're a policyholder.

[00:04:55] And so it's just – it's more familial, you know.

[00:04:58] It's more like a family.

[00:04:59] Yeah.

[00:04:59] That's right.

[00:04:59] And to test that, I've had four claims probably in my life with Farm Bureau.

[00:05:06] And when they come out, I do not tell the claims adjuster that I have anything to do with Farm Bureau whatsoever.

[00:05:12] Right.

[00:05:12] And I want to see – because I want to see how I'm treated.

[00:05:14] And I'm treated just like family, just like you said.

[00:05:16] Yeah.

[00:05:16] Then I'm able to report back and say, you know, exactly what you just said.

[00:05:21] But I've never assumed – and it is.

[00:05:24] It's great to see it's going on out there organically, you know.

[00:05:26] So one of the things I would tell you, you know, we do represent independent agents.

[00:05:31] So we compete with you guys a little bit because you all are captives.

[00:05:33] But everybody's friendly.

[00:05:34] Everybody's trying to do what's best.

[00:05:36] And, you know, sometimes people don't have a connection to, say, the agricultural community or Farm Bureau, and they don't get their insurance through that.

[00:05:44] We work with independent agents.

[00:05:46] Right, right.

[00:05:47] So what I, you know, kind of alluded to it a little bit earlier, insurance is worldwide finance.

[00:05:55] It's not – for you guys, y'all are one of the captives.

[00:05:58] We have another captive in New Orleans, Gray Insurance.

[00:06:02] They're not captives, but they are domestic.

[00:06:04] They are based here in Louisiana.

[00:06:07] I might be one of the only – I might be the only two, you know.

[00:06:10] They're at the Capitol all the time, so I think you're right.

[00:06:13] Oh, yeah, they have a big presence at the Capitol in their concern.

[00:06:16] But, you know, one of the things that I know from my work in working with the independent insurance agents and brokers of Louisiana and with State Farm agents is that we have some issues that we have to address in Louisiana.

[00:06:31] So, for example, on a – so there are really two things that affect insurance.

[00:06:39] We have a high frequency in Louisiana.

[00:06:40] Frequency, the number of times there are claims, and then the severity of those claims.

[00:06:45] So that's it.

[00:06:46] I mean, how many times you have accidents, and I don't mean –

[00:06:49] We have a high frequency in Louisiana.

[00:06:51] Right.

[00:06:52] And so I'm not just talking about auto.

[00:06:53] It could be number of trees down.

[00:06:55] You know, it could be –

[00:06:55] Right.

[00:06:56] Right.

[00:06:56] It could be liability claims on a piece of property where someone runs across your property and, you know, brains their ankle or whatever.

[00:07:02] So we are very close on a frequency basis.

[00:07:06] We are very close to the national average.

[00:07:09] We're a little above the national average on frequency.

[00:07:12] So we're in the groove.

[00:07:14] We're not out of line.

[00:07:15] We're right there in the groove.

[00:07:17] But on severity, we're double the national average.

[00:07:21] And that should raise some eyebrows, right?

[00:07:25] Right.

[00:07:25] Are we fragile?

[00:07:26] Are you fragile, Joe?

[00:07:27] No.

[00:07:28] Do you break easily?

[00:07:29] No.

[00:07:29] Right.

[00:07:30] You know, yeah, we might be a little overweight, and maybe we're a little less educated, but we're good people.

[00:07:34] And I don't know that I think we're, like, particularly soft.

[00:07:38] I mean, I know some tough Cajuns and, you know, tough people from the bayou and North Louisiana.

[00:07:43] And we're not getting in different kinds of wrecks than the other states.

[00:07:46] We're driving the same kind of cars.

[00:07:47] Right.

[00:07:49] I'll give a little bit of credit.

[00:07:51] I mean, a little bit of a credit on this, and that is our roads are bad, right?

[00:07:54] And, you know, again, nothing in this tax.

[00:07:56] It's a big part of the rates because you've got maintenance is, you know, a higher cost because of the bad road.

[00:08:02] That's right.

[00:08:03] But there's nothing really in this package that addresses roads or addresses why the frequencies are – I mean, the severity is so high.

[00:08:12] But it is a big deal.

[00:08:14] And, you know, for you and I, it's not a big deal, right?

[00:08:17] I mean, it's money that we would probably give to our kids or make a donation to a charity or what have you.

[00:08:22] We're just going to pay it.

[00:08:23] And it's not going to be an issue.

[00:08:25] But you've got kids.

[00:08:27] And when I see them, you know, when my daughter calls me almost in tears because she doesn't know how she's going to afford that insurance,

[00:08:36] fortunately she has somebody like me who says, well, you need to shop it and here's where you need to go because I know where to go, right?

[00:08:42] But a lot of people don't.

[00:08:43] And so what you have right now that's going on in the insurance world – and I'm sorry to go off on insurance.

[00:08:48] No, that's okay.

[00:08:49] But I can remember a legislator, and I'm going to try to not nail them, but they're big followers of this podcast.

[00:08:56] They love it.

[00:08:57] They've been calling me and saying, you know, when's the next one coming out?

[00:09:00] Where they had – he had people who were constituents of his that came into his office, the wife crying,

[00:09:06] and they said, we're going to give our key back to the mortgage company because our insurance rates are higher than our mortgage rate.

[00:09:11] And we can't afford it.

[00:09:13] And we don't want to go bankrupt.

[00:09:14] And so we're going to give it back to them so they can sell it.

[00:09:17] It's still in good shape, but we can't afford the insurance.

[00:09:19] And then you've got people just giving up their insurance altogether.

[00:09:22] That's exactly right.

[00:09:23] On their homes.

[00:09:24] And I'm talking about a lot of people.

[00:09:26] I'm not talking about poor people either.

[00:09:28] I'm talking about executives that have made the decision that I'm not going to have insurance anymore because it's X amount of my income.

[00:09:35] You know, over 50% in a lot of cases.

[00:09:39] So, you know, what's the end outcome of that, you know, for the state?

[00:09:44] Well, I think the big issue, too, is that we're not even – right now the conversation you and I are having is not even –

[00:09:51] it's just our insurance, but then think of flood insurance.

[00:09:54] Oh, my goodness.

[00:09:55] The NFIP has been – so, again, we were in D.C. up there talking to legislators about –

[00:10:03] I mean, congresspeople about flood and, by the way, crop insurance.

[00:10:10] Big deal for us.

[00:10:11] We sell it.

[00:10:12] And we have not had a full crop or full flood program for a long time because all they're doing is doing extensions to it, right?

[00:10:20] I think the next time it runs out is like at the end of January and congress doesn't act, it runs out.

[00:10:25] And I think that's true of crop, although I'm not quite as close to crop.

[00:10:29] You probably are.

[00:10:30] But when we go there, the big issue we have is how do you calculate those rates?

[00:10:36] So some of the rates right now – when we were there last time about a month ago, we were talking with a congressional staffer who said that when the NFIP gears up all of its rates,

[00:10:50] that the most expensive flood insurance in the nation will be in Plaquemines Parish.

[00:10:55] Wow.

[00:10:56] And, I mean, they're already – I mean, they do have that great LNG plant down there that's just rolling.

[00:11:02] I don't know if when was the last time you went down there, but it's pretty –

[00:11:04] It's been a while.

[00:11:05] It's amazing.

[00:11:06] I mean, it's –

[00:11:06] About to take a trip.

[00:11:07] Oh, it's – let me just say this.

[00:11:09] When you go down there, be prepared for traffic because those roads that had no traffic because there were no people, they got a lot of people on the road now.

[00:11:15] Wow, interesting.

[00:11:15] But they're going to pay the highest insurance rate – highest flood insurance rates in the nation.

[00:11:20] And so it is really, I think, what we want to know from the feds is how do you calculate that?

[00:11:30] We've built seawalls.

[00:11:32] We've built flood protection situations.

[00:11:35] We've built all that.

[00:11:36] Now, why are our rates in those areas still accelerating at the rates they were before we had that flood protection?

[00:11:43] Or even built some islands.

[00:11:44] Remember Bobby Jindal built some islands out there?

[00:11:46] I do remember that.

[00:11:47] I think it was five of them.

[00:11:48] And so they won't give the formula.

[00:11:50] And by the way, they won't just give the formula to us.

[00:11:53] They won't give it to the congressmen.

[00:11:55] And that is just bizarre to us, you know.

[00:11:57] And now I'm going to go off on a little bit of a soapbox, but we really need a catastrophic program nationwide.

[00:12:04] I mean, you know, Florida's getting bombed.

[00:12:08] We've had wildfires.

[00:12:09] You're talking about a pool, a catastrophic pool?

[00:12:11] Yeah, I think you could call it a pool.

[00:12:13] Of course, no one trusts ever going to the feds and saying, you know, give me some, you know, we'll give you some money and you fix this because nobody believes that.

[00:12:23] But again, I didn't mean to get off so much on insurance.

[00:12:26] But insurance is just like a tax.

[00:12:27] If you ask me, you have to have it, right?

[00:12:29] If you buy it, if you have a mortgage.

[00:12:31] And so when you talk about it, you know, the reality of it is, is so what happens if what happens to you if you are in a in a in a place where the hurricane comes on and blows your house down and you don't have insurance?

[00:12:45] What happens?

[00:12:46] You could be homeless.

[00:12:47] Seriously.

[00:12:48] But you know what else happens?

[00:12:50] FEMA comes in.

[00:12:51] Well, they could take your property because it depends on what area it's in.

[00:12:55] And if they designate that area, a blighted area, you know, then they could do our friend Emmett domain.

[00:13:02] We all know him, eminent domain, which is expropriation.

[00:13:06] They could expropriate the land.

[00:13:08] That's right.

[00:13:09] And say it's too dangerous for you to return here.

[00:13:11] And so there's all kinds of things that could happen if you don't have insurance.

[00:13:14] But it would be a horrible thing no matter what your situation is.

[00:13:18] No doubt about it.

[00:13:18] And again, nobody's ever going to do this because the problem is, is you buy flood insurance if you're susceptible to floods.

[00:13:25] Well, insurance by its nature is pooled risk.

[00:13:28] If you're in Shreveport and high land, you're not going to, you know, on a high spot, you're not going to buy flood insurance.

[00:13:34] I'm probably going to get killed for this, but I don't have flood insurance because I live on the top of a hill.

[00:13:39] If I flood, the Capitol's got 35 feet of water in it, right?

[00:13:43] And so I'm just saying.

[00:13:44] If you step out my front door and look to the left, you can see the levee of the Mississippi River.

[00:13:50] But I'm not in a flood zone.

[00:13:51] But I have flood insurance because I know if that levee breaks, I'm going to be in a flood zone.

[00:13:55] That's exactly right.

[00:13:56] And it broke in 1933.

[00:13:57] Well, and again, I'm going to get in some trouble because my agents are going to call in,

[00:14:01] hey, either just try to sell me flood insurance, which would be very nominal costs because of where I am.

[00:14:06] Right.

[00:14:06] I'm in what's called an X flood zone.

[00:14:08] And so I don't really have to have it.

[00:14:10] I don't have a mortgage.

[00:14:11] I think that's what I'm in too.

[00:14:12] I'm not required to have it.

[00:14:13] And I don't have a, I don't, I mean, I've, you know, I'm 62 years old.

[00:14:17] I've lived in my house 25 years.

[00:14:19] I don't have a mortgage anymore.

[00:14:20] So I don't have to have it by the bank or anything.

[00:14:23] And so it's, so my whole point of pooled risk is I'm not buying it.

[00:14:27] And I'm in an area where a lot of people are buying it.

[00:14:30] And so something's got to be done on a larger scale because what's going to, what's happening is we,

[00:14:36] the people who have insurance go to their insurer, you know, so, you know, the whole deal.

[00:14:40] So the way insurance works is if you have a wind and hail, which is hurricane, you'll have a hurricane deductible.

[00:14:48] But that insurer that is not responsible for rising water.

[00:14:54] It's only responsible for falling water.

[00:14:57] The rising water is covered by flood.

[00:15:00] Or if you don't have flood, it's not covered at all.

[00:15:02] And that insurer who's doing the falling water, the wind and hail and hurricane coverage is not, is not going to pay for any of that.

[00:15:12] And most policyholders are very surprised to learn that when they have a flood situation.

[00:15:17] That's right.

[00:15:17] They're like, what are you talking about?

[00:15:18] This is a weather situation.

[00:15:20] So now some of the insurers that do what we call traditionally fire policies and then they add on wind and hail for their homeowners.

[00:15:27] So a homeowner's policy is a fire policy.

[00:15:29] And then the add-ons are wind and hail and hurricane and all that.

[00:15:32] And there are specific deductibles.

[00:15:35] The policies are changing because the weather is changing.

[00:15:38] And now you will see policies that exclude wind-driven rain.

[00:15:44] Well, that's a hurricane, right?

[00:15:46] I mean, right?

[00:15:47] Sure, we have some spring showers where that stuff comes in, but it's wind-driven rain.

[00:15:52] So those are big issues that are affecting everybody and really everybody in the country.

[00:15:57] And at some point, either the feds are going to have to step in and fix it or a lot of people are going to be in a bad spot.

[00:16:03] I mean, these – I mean, you know, thank God.

[00:16:06] Well, first off, God bless the people in Florida and North Carolina and Georgia.

[00:16:10] And, you know, it's just heartbreaking because we've all been through that.

[00:16:13] We've seen evacuations.

[00:16:14] We've seen leaving and not knowing what you're going to come back to.

[00:16:18] God bless them and God protect Louisiana because let's just pray that Louisiana doesn't –

[00:16:23] and doesn't have a catastrophe anytime soon.

[00:16:27] Yeah.

[00:16:27] And look, I didn't mean to get off on a tangent,

[00:16:30] but you and I both know that the hurricane that just hit Milton twice was a five

[00:16:35] and had one of the lowest, if not the lowest –

[00:16:38] Barometric pressure.

[00:16:39] – pressure ever.

[00:16:40] Yeah.

[00:16:40] And it did it –

[00:16:41] People's batteries were dying a day in advance because there was so much electricity coming out of the store.

[00:16:46] And I'm not talking about electric cars and electric batteries.

[00:16:49] I'm talking about a regular car with a normal battery.

[00:16:51] They were having to go get new batteries because they were dying

[00:16:54] because there was so much electricity coming in from that store.

[00:16:57] And if – you know, I mean, it's an awful, horrible thing,

[00:17:00] but the pictures of it were, as a lot of the meteorologists said, perfect.

[00:17:05] It was a perfect hurricane.

[00:17:07] Oh.

[00:17:07] But we were lucky.

[00:17:08] It wobbled out.

[00:17:09] Yes.

[00:17:09] It did it.

[00:17:09] It pulled a Katrina.

[00:17:10] It blew up in size, but it was a three when it hit as opposed to a five.

[00:17:15] If it would have hit at that high point when it was a five –

[00:17:18] When they had it at a five directed at Tampa, that's when I started praying.

[00:17:23] That looked bad.

[00:17:24] And from a population standpoint, it would have been one of the worst ever.

[00:17:27] Now, the winds are just coming down now.

[00:17:29] People are getting in to see where the damage is.

[00:17:32] And a lot of my clients are going down there and doing –

[00:17:36] well, they've been doing North Carolina and northern Georgia because it's a little bit closer.

[00:17:40] Right.

[00:17:41] And they're going to go down and try to help.

[00:17:42] But you just don't know where to help.

[00:17:44] Right.

[00:17:44] You don't know where to go.

[00:17:45] So anyway, I bring that up because that storm hitting Florida is going to impact your insurance rates and my insurance rates.

[00:17:51] Oh, no doubt.

[00:17:52] And it's going to be tough, and I do feel for the people of Florida.

[00:17:56] So what are your thoughts about – so the governor said that –

[00:18:01] I'm going to get back on taxes, and I'm sorry for that digression.

[00:18:03] No, that's okay.

[00:18:04] But in my opinion, insurance is a tax, right?

[00:18:07] It's a way that we protect ourselves and most –

[00:18:09] You can't choose to not pay it.

[00:18:11] That's right.

[00:18:11] And if you do, if something bad happens, it can change your life for a very long time.

[00:18:18] But the governor – the discussion is there has been no session called as of now, but there is a discussion.

[00:18:25] And I've heard that it was going to be called if it's called because I've heard a lot of ifs now on November 11th,

[00:18:32] and it would end I think on the 22nd is what they're talking about.

[00:18:35] Is that what you're hearing?

[00:18:37] I hear a new date every day, but that range of days and that time of the month.

[00:18:44] I've heard from the 5th through the 17th and the 4th through the 16th.

[00:18:50] So this is the first time I've heard this.

[00:18:52] But what we've been told is that the session dates will be somewhere between the dates of November 5th and Thanksgiving.

[00:18:59] That's what I've heard too.

[00:19:00] And November 5th is the –

[00:19:03] Election.

[00:19:04] Right, the election.

[00:19:06] So that's interesting.

[00:19:08] That will be interesting to see where we are after November 5th and, you know, if we hold this session and move forward.

[00:19:15] And, you know, that's going to be interesting.

[00:19:18] Yeah.

[00:19:19] So any prognostications or other things you want to talk about?

[00:19:22] Yes.

[00:19:23] I would like to talk about their proposal to, you know, give the parishes a choice between severance taxes and inventory taxes.

[00:19:35] Okay?

[00:19:36] North of I-10, you've got much more timber, so severance taxes, right?

[00:19:40] You know, south you've got more business and industry, so inventory taxes.

[00:19:44] So, I mean, that's going to be a tough one because you've got some big landowners up north that it's going to –

[00:19:51] I mean, you're talking about they're getting the agricultural used value tax exemption right now.

[00:19:56] To be investors, you've got a lot of big timberland investors, and some of them are from here, but some of them aren't.

[00:20:01] And, you know, that's not going to encourage investment in land if north of I-10, they don't know business like stability, you know,

[00:20:14] and they don't want to know that there's possibly going to be a new fee or a new tax that could come on them later depending on what the local area budget is.

[00:20:22] You know what I'm saying?

[00:20:23] Yeah.

[00:20:23] I've heard that the sheriffs – there are a number of sheriffs that have some issues with this proposal, that part of the proposal.

[00:20:30] I know that there are some concerns from some municipalities.

[00:20:35] I'm not speaking for them, but there are some conversations that are going on, and it is my understanding that they're pretty intense

[00:20:41] and that some people, you know, that are the loudest voices are very concerned about that part of it, and it is a big deal, you know.

[00:20:52] Well, we're back to the beginning of this podcast where we talked about, you know,

[00:20:55] you need to get around a circular table with the interested parties,

[00:20:59] and I'm not saying hash it out, but at least get some perspective on that industry or that profession before all this legislation is filed

[00:21:08] that just rocks the very foundation of some professions, you know.

[00:21:11] Right. I don't know that I – I'm not – you know, I believe – and if I say this wrong, I apologize, but not a lot.

[00:21:19] But, like, you know, I think Americans for Prosperity are pushing this.

[00:21:24] I think the Heritage Foundation – you know, there's a lot of big out-of-state operations that are pushing this,

[00:21:30] and I feel it should be a little more internally centric.

[00:21:34] That's my point about the circular table.

[00:21:36] Right.

[00:21:36] You know, get with people from Louisiana that are in the industries, that are in the professions.

[00:21:42] They're the experts.

[00:21:43] You don't have to take every – the governor and the legislature doesn't have to take every bit of information

[00:21:48] from that industry or profession as biblical scripture.

[00:21:52] Right.

[00:21:52] But it's at least knowledge that they can, you know, incorporate into their decisions when they're moving forward.

[00:21:57] I'm going to predict a lot of opposition to this legislative session by a lot of different professions and industries.

[00:22:04] And my point here at this moment is that that could have been avoided.

[00:22:08] And you're never going to avoid opposition.

[00:22:10] You know, you're always going to have some.

[00:22:12] But to me, this is going to be Harry Carey, David.

[00:22:15] It's like throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks.

[00:22:17] Plenty method, yeah.

[00:22:18] Yeah, yeah.

[00:22:19] Yeah.

[00:22:19] And, you know, the fact that they're coming out with a revised folder of bills tells us several things.

[00:22:27] But one thing I think it tells us is that after the first folder came out, certain professions and industries went and talked to them

[00:22:33] and said, hey, we can't live with this.

[00:22:35] And they said, okay, well, let's amend it up, you know.

[00:22:37] And so they did that.

[00:22:38] So before we even go into session, we're on the first revision of the first set of bills.

[00:22:45] And I'm not saying we're going to have more before the session begins, but I am saying exactly what I said at the beginning in this deal.

[00:22:51] Tax reform is an extremely complicated matter.

[00:22:53] Do you remember Julie Stokes, state representative?

[00:22:56] I was with her yesterday.

[00:22:57] I was with Julie yesterday, yeah.

[00:22:59] Okay.

[00:22:59] So do you remember that she said she was going to take on tax reform?

[00:23:03] And she worked very hard and very diligently and did a great job.

[00:23:08] She's smart.

[00:23:08] She's a CPA.

[00:23:09] She gets it all, yeah.

[00:23:10] Were you in committee when she threw her hands up finally with all the spreadsheets in front of her and said that's it?

[00:23:15] Yeah.

[00:23:15] Because, I mean, it's that difficult.

[00:23:18] It is.

[00:23:18] And if I had the task of straightening it out, I would want as much help as I could possibly get because I don't have the answers.

[00:23:25] You were just talking about insurance.

[00:23:27] I was sitting here racking my brain.

[00:23:28] I have no answers for that, you know.

[00:23:30] And we've been in, you and I have been in lots of meetings where we're all trying to come up with answers, you know.

[00:23:36] But.

[00:23:36] No, I'm glad you brought that up because this something similar, but not quite as much, but something similar was proposed in the general administration, if you'll remember.

[00:23:46] Yes.

[00:23:46] And I don't even know if it ever went to the legislature, but I was involved in some of the conversations because they had not done their homework in terms of what they thought.

[00:23:56] They didn't call people in those industries, so I was able to get some of my people in those industries to go talk to them.

[00:24:03] And there were some presumptions there, and that was mostly from outside, you know, interests, you know, national groups, these think tanks.

[00:24:11] And it wasn't well thought out.

[00:24:13] And it never came to fruition.

[00:24:15] And actually, there was a, during the Edwards administration, during the John Bell Edwards administration, there was another crack at it.

[00:24:24] And it really ended up not working.

[00:24:27] And so, you know, look, I am.

[00:24:29] Karen Carter Peterson tried to get our bow weevil eradication money out of a special fund that we have, and she had never talked to us, okay?

[00:24:37] She didn't know how important it was to agriculture.

[00:24:39] Stunning.

[00:24:39] And then when we went to her and said how this is important to her, she said, well, haven't you eradicated the bow weevil?

[00:24:45] And we said, yes.

[00:24:45] She said, well, we're taking the money.

[00:24:47] He said, no, you don't understand.

[00:24:48] If one male and one female returns, it could devastate the entire cotton industry in Louisiana.

[00:24:53] And she said, well, we're going to go forward with it anyway.

[00:24:56] And Mike Strain would be proud to hear me say that we started from the ground up getting votes to kill that thing.

[00:25:01] And by the time we got the vote count, they came to us and said, you know, please, what do you want?

[00:25:06] Back off, you know.

[00:25:07] But a lot of this is critical stuff.

[00:25:10] It's critical stuff to industries and to professions.

[00:25:13] It's nothing personal.

[00:25:15] No.

[00:25:15] But you've got to look at it from a business perspective.

[00:25:18] And I love the way that you, you know, talked about not just the insurance but talked about some of these service fees would go on to be ultimately a tax to the corporations that employ these services or that, you know, that use these services.

[00:25:29] That's right.

[00:25:29] And then so you take the $500 million in the .45, the $300 million that we would get in the automatic tax reduction because of the budget stabilization fund, the $600 million in use taxes, you know, service taxes, I'm sorry.

[00:25:48] It's a lot of money, you know, all at one time.

[00:25:51] And I just, you know, I'm not saying I like paying taxes, but my state income tax has never bothered me.

[00:25:58] Not my federal income tax.

[00:25:59] That bothers me, right?

[00:26:01] Because I could support a small developing nation with that.

[00:26:04] Right.

[00:26:05] I tell my wife all the time I want to fly in one of those, you know, F-16s.

[00:26:09] Oh, yeah.

[00:26:10] I actually don't because I get motion sickness, but it's a joke, you know.

[00:26:14] And look, my son works for the military, so I love them too.

[00:26:18] I think there are other issues from a taxation standpoint.

[00:26:21] It's not directly what we're talking about.

[00:26:22] But I got to tell you, I'm not foretold unless there is an alternate route.

[00:26:28] I consider if-

[00:26:29] Yeah, Houston's a good example.

[00:26:31] You can go on the lower roads if you don't want to go on the high rise.

[00:26:34] I think making, this is just a personal opinion, I think making the bridge at Westlake and Lake Charles a toll road is just really,

[00:26:44] I just can't imagine people, you know.

[00:26:48] And look, I don't work in that industry.

[00:26:50] I don't represent any of them.

[00:26:51] And look, I'm foretold roads.

[00:26:53] Don't get me wrong.

[00:26:54] I'm foretold roads.

[00:26:55] But there's got to be another option, right?

[00:26:57] We'll talk off when this microphone goes off.

[00:27:00] Yeah.

[00:27:00] We'll talk about that one.

[00:27:01] Well, I know, you know, Renee real well with the motor transport people.

[00:27:04] And I know they have some concerns because it's just, it's a lot of money.

[00:27:08] But in the end, we pay for it.

[00:27:10] Because when they are transporting those goods, they're going to put it on the cost of the goods.

[00:27:13] And I just feel like-

[00:27:14] We pay for it, but where does that money go that we pay?

[00:27:17] Well, we're already paying for it.

[00:27:18] And so if you came to me and said, I want to put tolls on the new bridge over the river that they're going to build wherever,

[00:27:25] they're going to build it maybe before I die here, they're not.

[00:27:29] That's not happening.

[00:27:31] And it's in the wrong place, just my opinion.

[00:27:33] But if they're going to do that, I'd rather you come to me and say, how would you feel about an increase in the gas tax?

[00:27:41] We haven't increased the gas tax in a long time.

[00:27:43] It's a road use tax, right?

[00:27:46] I mean, unless you're buying it for a lawnmower or a four-wheeler or whatever.

[00:27:49] We could even call it that if we wanted to, to keep up with the green times.

[00:27:52] We could.

[00:27:53] Yeah.

[00:27:53] Yeah.

[00:27:54] And I mean, I know Representative Freiburg has done some things with trying to tax the electric, the EVs.

[00:28:02] Right.

[00:28:03] For road usage.

[00:28:05] Road use tax.

[00:28:06] But, you know, it hasn't been increased in a long time.

[00:28:08] I don't have a problem with that.

[00:28:09] Tell me what it is.

[00:28:10] But I want it to go to roads.

[00:28:11] I want it to pay for that bridge.

[00:28:12] I don't want it to go into administration, which has always been a big issue.

[00:28:15] You remember the Roamer Time program.

[00:28:18] But from a taxation perspective, look, and I know it probably wouldn't pass, right?

[00:28:23] But the reality of it is, is it's appropriate, right?

[00:28:26] It's appropriate that people who drive more would pay it.

[00:28:29] And the people who don't drive at all wouldn't pay it.

[00:28:31] Right.

[00:28:32] Unless they use public transportation and there was an increase and so on and so forth.

[00:28:36] And there's really not much public transportation in Louisiana.

[00:28:38] New Orleans metro area, the CATS program here, I'll say it.

[00:28:41] I don't care.

[00:28:42] It's awful.

[00:28:44] There's no doubt about it.

[00:28:44] And, you know, the reality of it is, though, is let's get our taxes where they go.

[00:28:51] And let's try to figure that out as opposed to it.

[00:28:53] Well, people get frustrated.

[00:28:54] No, you know, if they think their money wasn't spent where it was intended.

[00:28:57] You know, we have money earmarked and dedicated to the transportation trust fund.

[00:29:01] and then they see it go to expenditures like payroll and other expenses, travel or whatnot,

[00:29:10] or overall overhead expenses of the department instead of roads and bridges.

[00:29:14] So a great thing that it came up, and again, talking about the taxation aspect of it,

[00:29:20] I really liked what Governor Landry said about when he asked about the train from New Orleans to Baton Rouge.

[00:29:27] He said, I'd rather add a lane to the interstate from border to border.

[00:29:33] Or he said something like that.

[00:29:34] I'm not trying to quote him, but generally what he was saying, I said, I'd rather put it into roads.

[00:29:38] Right, right.

[00:29:39] We need that.

[00:29:40] I mean, we need, you know, you see it already, right?

[00:29:43] We're building out from Baton Rouge.

[00:29:44] We've got, you know, the next project adds a lane to the next exit, and that's where the traffic problem is.

[00:29:51] That's a great idea.

[00:29:53] And to create that sort of improvement in infrastructure, they built that.

[00:29:58] I love the way they built that railroad bridge on the Bonacare when you're on the I-10, and they built it to the right.

[00:30:04] I mean, that was amazing.

[00:30:05] It was quick.

[00:30:05] Yeah.

[00:30:06] And it was automated.

[00:30:07] It was really, really cool.

[00:30:08] Right.

[00:30:09] And to watch it, that's what we need.

[00:30:10] We need to be building that.

[00:30:11] That needs to be three lanes.

[00:30:12] You go there, right?

[00:30:13] All the time.

[00:30:14] And once you come over that hill, you know exactly the hill I'm talking about where the railroad bridge is going to be on your right, you come to a screeching halt right about there because the traffic's bottlenecking into New Orleans at that point.

[00:30:26] Now, having said that, I really do like the train because I'd use it.

[00:30:29] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[00:30:29] Yeah.

[00:30:30] I would use that because it would kind of—

[00:30:31] We traveled, and my mother brought my brother and I on trains all over America when I was young.

[00:30:37] And the thing about it is I do believe it shouldn't just be a New Orleans-Baton-Rouge train.

[00:30:41] I think it needs to be a Houston-to-the-coast train because I think you'd have people using it to go to Destin, you know, and avoiding all that traffic and going to places like Gulf Shores and Mobile, and, you know, you tie all that in.

[00:30:53] That would be very thoughtful, right?

[00:30:55] That would increase the use of that project.

[00:31:01] But I wanted to tell a quick story.

[00:31:02] When I was first in Baton Rouge, I moved in 1990 to Baton Rouge.

[00:31:07] I ran for Metro Council.

[00:31:08] I think it was in 92.

[00:31:10] And actually, at that time, the feds had spent $20 million on a study for rail along the coast, and it said it would work.

[00:31:19] And that was one of my campaign things.

[00:31:21] I want light rail.

[00:31:22] I want it to come through, right?

[00:31:24] Kids coming to LSU for school, you know, going to LSU games, whatever.

[00:31:28] And, of course, the person who beat me said it was pie in the sky.

[00:31:31] And he's right.

[00:31:32] We don't – at the same time, we're talking about a bridge over the Mississippi River.

[00:31:36] So 1990, that was a long time ago.

[00:31:39] That was a long time ago.

[00:31:40] And so 34 years later, where are we?

[00:31:42] And so I think we do have to do some things.

[00:31:44] I am not against taxation.

[00:31:46] I am just – I like the pay-as-you-go piece.

[00:31:50] So talking about that.

[00:31:52] When I was on the school board, it was – we passed a one-cent tax, but we said every project that was going to be in it.

[00:32:00] And that's what it goes for.

[00:32:01] But we don't build the project until we collect the tax.

[00:32:04] So we're not paying interest.

[00:32:06] We're not bonding indebtedness.

[00:32:08] You know, it's kind of how you and I have to live, right?

[00:32:11] Right.

[00:32:12] Exactly.

[00:32:13] You know, you're talking about taxes, and it's got me thinking – people that complain about them think about this.

[00:32:19] You and I can take bags of garbage and walk it down to the end of our driveway and set it next to the street,

[00:32:26] and somebody else will come pick that up and take it away.

[00:32:29] Now, you may not think that's a big deal, but go down to St. Lucia, even in parts of St. Lucia and other third-world countries,

[00:32:37] and there's nobody picking up their trash.

[00:32:39] So, yes, there's a need for taxes.

[00:32:42] There's a need for services.

[00:32:43] But organize those taxes and that tax structure the right way and then make sure it's spent the right way.

[00:32:50] These days, more people have eyes on government than ever before.

[00:32:54] Yeah.

[00:32:54] Listen, I've been in governmental politics a long time, and I'd show up at the Christmas dinner, turkey dinner,

[00:33:01] and I felt like a bastard at the family reunion when I started talking about politics.

[00:33:06] Nobody wanted to hear about it.

[00:33:07] Right.

[00:33:07] Okay?

[00:33:08] So I've got to thank Barack Obama for waking the nation up because after he won president the first time,

[00:33:14] everybody wanted to talk about politics.

[00:33:16] And so it's great for me because that's all I ever really want to talk about is politics.

[00:33:20] We have great conversations.

[00:33:22] I mean, sometimes I wish instead of doing a podcast, we could just tape our phone calls.

[00:33:26] Yeah, really?

[00:33:27] And I always enjoy talking with you.

[00:33:29] I forgot to tell you, I have been taping them.

[00:33:30] Oh, good.

[00:33:31] Yeah, that's all right.

[00:33:31] I'm joking.

[00:33:32] I'm joking.

[00:33:32] No, it's okay.

[00:33:32] I mean, you and I both know that whatever we say is somebody's listening, right?

[00:33:37] Oh, yeah.

[00:33:37] Oh, yeah.

[00:33:38] And with AI and everything that's coming up, that's going to be a big deal.

[00:33:42] I use the heck out of it, but I just feel like, you know, if I'm sitting there the other day, I was talking.

[00:33:48] I brought up something about Michael Jackson, former state representative.

[00:33:52] I just brought it up.

[00:33:53] I was talking.

[00:33:54] He works, and I don't even remember where he works, but anyway, he was always a really good friend of mine.

[00:34:00] I loved him.

[00:34:01] And he was great.

[00:34:02] He was a gentleman.

[00:34:02] Yeah, a gentleman and his wife, very accomplished and works in the insurance world.

[00:34:07] And anyway, I brought it up.

[00:34:09] And then when I picked up my phone, I pulled up Google, and it had Michael Jackson's greatest hits.

[00:34:16] And I'm like, okay, it's listening to me.

[00:34:18] There's no way.

[00:34:20] Because I don't really listen.

[00:34:21] I like Michael Jackson's music.

[00:34:22] To show you how much I believe you, I talk back to it.

[00:34:25] Oh, yeah.

[00:34:25] That's right.

[00:34:26] Yeah.

[00:34:26] Well, I told my wife, I said, you know, I used to talk to myself.

[00:34:29] You know, no one listened.

[00:34:30] I said, now everyone listens.

[00:34:32] I walked by my, I walked, what is it, Alexa?

[00:34:35] I walked by Alexa.

[00:34:36] This was about a year and a half ago, and it was in my bathroom.

[00:34:39] And all I ever used Alexa for is, Alexa, what time is it?

[00:34:42] Yeah.

[00:34:42] Okay?

[00:34:43] And I walked by it, and it spoke to me.

[00:34:45] Oh, my God.

[00:34:45] And I didn't speak to it.

[00:34:46] Yeah.

[00:34:46] So that was it.

[00:34:47] I took it outside and destroyed it.

[00:34:49] I don't want anything to do with something that's going to talk to me when I'm not talking to you.

[00:34:52] Yeah.

[00:34:52] When it's a robot.

[00:34:53] Yeah.

[00:34:54] And so I guess at some point, I'm going to, when it starts having arguments with me, I'm going to throw mine.

[00:34:59] Philosophical.

[00:34:59] That's right.

[00:35:00] But I do think it's cool.

[00:35:01] I open the refrigerator, and we're low on milk, and I say, Alexa, add milk.

[00:35:05] I've got to be careful if I say it too loud.

[00:35:07] Maybe somebody else will pick it up.

[00:35:08] Well, like my search engine function is tied up to AI, and I have a choice whether I want to do a search on the internet with AI or not.

[00:35:15] And the AI portion always comes up first.

[00:35:17] And, you know, I'm always thinking, well, I'm going to ignore that and go do my own research.

[00:35:21] But then when you do, it's not as good as the AI because it went out there and took a minute or two and gathered everything.

[00:35:28] Yeah.

[00:35:28] And it's given me some pretty good advice on health, personal health matters.

[00:35:32] Awesome.

[00:35:32] So I just give, and I probably should charge them for this, but the best AI tool, Google option tool is perplexity.

[00:35:42] It's unbelievable.

[00:35:43] Okay.

[00:35:43] It is Google on steroids, and I use it, and then I, you know, with AI.

[00:35:48] It's an app, I guess.

[00:35:49] It's an AI.

[00:35:50] I think it, I believe it's on the OpenAI platform.

[00:35:54] But it's like everybody, I read in the Wall Street Journal the other day, which is why I say the other day, which I'm old, so that was like three months ago, that perplexity would be the Google on steroids.

[00:36:05] It didn't say it like that, but that's how I would, so I do a lot of my research on that.

[00:36:12] And then, of course, when you use AI, you've got to go out and you have to check that research.

[00:36:16] Oh, yeah, definitely.

[00:36:17] But it's been spot on, and a lot of the numbers.

[00:36:19] You also have to educate yourself per item in the search because it's going to be broad.

[00:36:25] It's going to be more broad than, you know, the subject matter.

[00:36:28] But it gets pretty detailed, though.

[00:36:30] Yeah, it does.

[00:36:30] Let me just say this.

[00:36:31] A lot of the stuff we talked about today, I verified those numbers through perplexity and other AI platforms and then just Google searches and so on.

[00:36:39] And so, yeah, the world's changing.

[00:36:41] They won't need us much, Joe.

[00:36:44] We're becoming a vanishing breed, my friend.

[00:36:47] I would disagree with that because nuance.

[00:36:51] Oh, well, no doubt.

[00:36:52] I was kidding.

[00:36:53] There's no nuance.

[00:36:54] There is no ability to particularly strategize based on the humans that are involved.

[00:37:02] That's right.

[00:37:03] AI might be able to look at a past history of a particular military battle that would apply to politics or a political battle that would apply to politics.

[00:37:11] But AI is not going to be able to calculate the people that are in the room, those personalities.

[00:37:16] Well, I agree with that totally.

[00:37:18] And what I would say just that, again, you know, when people used to ask my mom what I did, she would say he goes to the Capitol and they pay him.

[00:37:26] I wish it was that simple.

[00:37:28] But the reality of it is we represent people.

[00:37:31] I mean, that's what we do.

[00:37:32] And so if I'm going to give an example, I represent physical therapists.

[00:37:35] Physical therapists are out there doing physical therapy all the time.

[00:37:38] And so they can't send somebody to the Capitol because they're doing their work.

[00:37:43] And they have incredibly difficult schedules.

[00:37:46] They work from early in the morning until late in the afternoon, sometimes in the evening.

[00:37:50] I know because I've been to their clinics to visit with them.

[00:37:53] And so they hire a guy like me or you to go in there and make sure that the Baton Rouge is not doing anything to hurt them.

[00:38:00] And then sometimes something happens and we need to pass something like we did with direct access that makes it easier for patients to get to physical therapists.

[00:38:10] And I could go on and on, right?

[00:38:11] I represent mental health counselors.

[00:38:13] And so we represent people.

[00:38:15] And I know you and I know me.

[00:38:17] I can't speak for every lobbyist.

[00:38:18] But I care about our state.

[00:38:20] I mean, I wouldn't.

[00:38:21] We talked about that in our last podcast.

[00:38:23] That's why we stayed.

[00:38:24] Yeah.

[00:38:24] And if someone came and said, I want you to represent me, and it was something that I didn't think was good for the state, I wouldn't take the representation.

[00:38:32] You and I are hired guns, but we choose the ranchers we work for.

[00:38:35] That's exactly right.

[00:38:36] And I would tell you that I know that in the big picture, we're doing what's best for people in Louisiana.

[00:38:41] I know my work in education, my work with my clients, I know the work that you're doing in agriculture and the work you do in so many other areas is really commendable.

[00:38:53] And I know that lobbyists are lower than a snake's belly.

[00:38:57] And the only thing lower than a lobbyist is a lawyer lobbyist.

[00:39:01] But the reality of it is, is we represent people.

[00:39:03] And I really do enjoy it.

[00:39:04] I love my clients.

[00:39:05] I know you do, too.

[00:39:06] I'll tell you one last story.

[00:39:07] George Sutton, who is still alive.

[00:39:09] He's 92 years old.

[00:39:11] I talk to him twice a week.

[00:39:13] Please tell him I said hello.

[00:39:14] I will.

[00:39:15] And he's as lucid as he was when he was 17.

[00:39:17] Love George.

[00:39:18] George always had such a great sense of humor, you know?

[00:39:23] Yeah.

[00:39:23] What were we just talking about a second ago?

[00:39:25] Now I've gotten off.

[00:39:26] No, just you were telling me a story about George Sutton and about the lobbyists.

[00:39:29] Oh, so that's right.

[00:39:30] So we were in an interview, and I'm not going to name for a prospective client.

[00:39:33] I'm not going to name the client.

[00:39:34] Yeah, it's okay.

[00:39:34] But the main person was physically looking down their nose most of the time when they were talking to us.

[00:39:40] So I could tell a third of the way in we weren't getting this deal, right?

[00:39:44] And well, right towards the end of the meeting, this person looks down their nose and says,

[00:39:48] well, we're not even sure that we're willing to affiliate with the likes of a lobbyist just yet.

[00:39:54] And I said, well, ma'am.

[00:39:55] I said, I understand.

[00:39:56] I said, my mother thought I was a piano player in a whorehouse to the day she died.

[00:40:00] And she was proud of me.

[00:40:02] I said, I never did tell her I was a lobbyist.

[00:40:04] It would have broke her a little heart.

[00:40:05] I love that.

[00:40:06] Her jaw dropped, and George Sutton looked at me with his eyes wide open, and then he went like, oh, well.

[00:40:11] Yeah.

[00:40:11] Well, it is sad that it is that way, that that's the perception out there.

[00:40:17] Lobbyists are educators and dot connectors.

[00:40:19] For everybody that's out there, it's real simple.

[00:40:22] And what is lobbying?

[00:40:24] It's an attempt to influence people that make decisions that affect your industry or your profession.

[00:40:29] It's that simple.

[00:40:30] And that influence is not bad influence.

[00:40:33] It's about going there.

[00:40:34] And so we provide data.

[00:40:37] You know, I remember one time Jay Darden, when some of the lobbyist reform was going through that was really designed to sort of pound us.

[00:40:44] And, of course, those of us that follow the law were the ones who paid the biggest price, right?

[00:40:48] Right.

[00:40:49] But Jay said that the legislature couldn't, and I'm paraphrasing, but he said legislature couldn't operate without lobbyists because the amount of staff that they would have to hire in the areas of expertise that they would have to hire, they couldn't afford to do it.

[00:41:02] And so I provide data.

[00:41:04] I go talk to legislators, and I tell them the truth.

[00:41:06] I say, you know, here is what the bill does.

[00:41:09] This is why my clients are concerned about it, but this is the way it affects your district.

[00:41:13] And, you know, I have nine people in your district who are in this, and they're very concerned about it.

[00:41:18] Don't talk to me.

[00:41:19] Go talk to them, right?

[00:41:20] And that is a lot of what we do is connect people, like you said.

[00:41:23] Connect the dots.

[00:41:25] Provide data.

[00:41:25] Tell the truth.

[00:41:26] When I started this, and you were before me, but when you started this, we didn't have Google.

[00:41:32] We were Google, right?

[00:41:34] If they wanted to know what was going on in the agriculture arena, they had to call Joe, and they had to call him on a rotary phone, right?

[00:41:41] We didn't have fax machines when I started.

[00:41:43] No, I know.

[00:41:44] And then when I started, we were just getting into that, and the little rolled thermal paper that would fall in the ground, it would disappear after about a couple of weeks, you know, the print on it.

[00:41:55] Right, the ink.

[00:41:56] But the point is, is they didn't have Google, so we were the experts on that.

[00:42:00] But I would also tell you, you can Google it all you want.

[00:42:05] Nobody knows more about the Tobacco Master Settlement Agreement in the state of Louisiana than I do.

[00:42:10] Right.

[00:42:10] Am I bragging?

[00:42:11] No.

[00:42:11] I mean, it's almost to the point where it doesn't matter anymore, but for a while, it didn't matter because there would be bills, and I would go to a legislator and say,

[00:42:19] you do understand if you pass this bill the way you've passed it, you're going to affect the $2.4 billion that the state is getting in the Master Settlement Agreement over the next year.

[00:42:27] When you walked in that room, AI could have never, you know, figured that out, what you were going to, that you were going to come in the room and what you were going to say,

[00:42:36] and what vast amount of information you had to back up for whatever you said.

[00:42:40] And most legislators are good people, and they say, I didn't know that.

[00:42:45] That is not what I intended to do.

[00:42:47] Back to the education part.

[00:42:48] Right.

[00:42:48] I never see an – I don't look at opposition in a negative way.

[00:42:53] I always see it as an opportunity to educate.

[00:42:55] That's right.

[00:42:56] Because Sandy says that, you know, there's two types of people.

[00:42:59] Either they don't know or they don't care.

[00:43:01] And most people care.

[00:43:03] So if you fill them in, then they're probably going to go, David, okay, now I'm with –

[00:43:08] I was killing a senator's bill, and I'm not going to name his name because he may not want me to.

[00:43:12] But he called me on a Sunday night at 930 this past session.

[00:43:15] We talked for about an hour and a half.

[00:43:17] And about 15 minutes before the end of the conversation, I said, you do a darn good job of explaining your legislation.

[00:43:24] As a matter of fact, you've convinced me.

[00:43:25] And he goes, I can't believe that you went into a tirade over that.

[00:43:29] But I didn't know.

[00:43:30] I mean, I read the bill.

[00:43:31] I saw how me and my client, we read the bill.

[00:43:34] We knew how it potentially damaged their industry.

[00:43:38] The author's – that wasn't the author's intent.

[00:43:40] Right.

[00:43:40] But it was on paper, okay?

[00:43:42] So when it's on paper, it's real.

[00:43:43] And out of respect to the author, I should have called him first.

[00:43:47] Right.

[00:43:47] And said, look, they want me to kill you, Bill.

[00:43:49] And then he could have talked me out of it right then.

[00:43:51] Right.

[00:43:51] But, you know, sometimes when you see things, not me and you, I'm talking about industries and professions.

[00:43:56] Right.

[00:43:56] They just react.

[00:43:57] That's right.

[00:43:58] And they don't wait for the tender mercies of the legislative process to kick in at some point in the future.

[00:44:04] They go take care of their own business now.

[00:44:06] And that's the critical role that we play.

[00:44:07] So I could go on and on, Joe.

[00:44:09] I appreciate you.

[00:44:09] This is great, David.

[00:44:10] Thank you so much.

[00:44:10] I appreciate you so much being here.

[00:44:12] You're a gentleman and a scholar.

[00:44:14] Your firm, Mapes and Mapes, does a really great job.

[00:44:17] We really like working with you and Sandy.

[00:44:20] Thank you.

[00:44:21] And all that goes right back at you through all the years.

[00:44:23] Yeah, through all the years.

[00:44:24] I'm 62 also.

[00:44:25] That's funny.

[00:44:26] It is funny that we're the same age.

[00:44:27] Just real quick before we wrap up.

[00:44:29] What year did you start?

[00:44:31] 1976.

[00:44:32] Jeez.

[00:44:32] I lobbied Senator Leonard Shaw Bear outside of Senate Committee Room AB.

[00:44:38] And I lobbied him.

[00:44:39] He chewed me up one side.

[00:44:40] Now, Leonard's the father of Norby and who's on the board?

[00:44:45] Yeah, Marty.

[00:44:47] Yeah, Marty and Norby, who also served in his Senate seat.

[00:44:50] Yes.

[00:44:51] And then Leonard, their father, chewed me up one side and down the other.

[00:44:54] And then when he got finished, I said, sir, are you finished?

[00:44:57] And he goes, yeah, why?

[00:44:58] I said, well, I still have to put you down on this little piece of paper as to how you're going to vote.

[00:45:02] Three other lobbyists, my father and Rufus Brown and George Brown,

[00:45:05] were hiding around the corner.

[00:45:07] And when that happened, they doubled over laughing.

[00:45:09] And I don't know if I got the vote, but I hung in there.

[00:45:12] So that's when I started.

[00:45:15] And I've worked every session in some capacity.

[00:45:17] You've got to be close to 50 years, huh?

[00:45:20] This is my 50th year right now.

[00:45:22] Yeah.

[00:45:22] So, I mean, everything from, you know, tending bars to filing papers.

[00:45:28] Yeah, no.

[00:45:28] You know, and everything.

[00:45:29] You remember when they used to bring the stacks of paper from the news bureau and you had to,

[00:45:33] you were the word search?

[00:45:34] Yeah.

[00:45:34] Do you remember that?

[00:45:34] Yes.

[00:45:35] So we would get bills, copies of bills on pieces of paper, everybody.

[00:45:39] There was no computer and they would have to print them.

[00:45:41] They wouldn't print them chronologically.

[00:45:42] It's not like, here's number one, file that in the folder.

[00:45:45] And they wouldn't print them by subject matter.

[00:45:47] And we'd have to sit around on the floor, three or four of us, and, you know,

[00:45:51] separate all the bills all night long.

[00:45:53] And this was every night for weeks.

[00:45:55] And then, like you said, make our own searches.

[00:45:57] And folders and put together.

[00:45:58] Yeah, I remember that.

[00:45:59] I remember we would get there at four o'clock in the morning because that's when they drop it off.

[00:46:10] Yeah.

[00:46:11] And then we had word search, which was me.

[00:46:13] I'd have to go through and look and see if it was anything that affected us.

[00:46:17] But we'd have to look at every bill.

[00:46:20] It's so crazy.

[00:46:21] I know.

[00:46:21] And then make sure that we couldn't verify anything on the computer or anything.

[00:46:27] You couldn't say, like, well, the committee's tomorrow morning, so let's all be there at 10.

[00:46:30] You were talking about your physical therapist.

[00:46:32] What if 20 of them took off work and they come to the Capitol and there's no meeting?

[00:46:36] That used to happen because they would post the meetings the night before on a bulletin board after we all went home.

[00:46:41] That's right.

[00:46:42] But guess what?

[00:46:42] We never went home.

[00:46:43] We stayed there until the last staffer came out and posted something on a bulletin board.

[00:46:47] So you know what's funny?

[00:46:48] They still post those things on the bulletin board.

[00:46:51] I know.

[00:46:51] I know.

[00:46:51] It's so funny when I see that.

[00:46:53] I remember because we used to have to go to the bulletin board to figure out what was going on.

[00:46:57] Yeah.

[00:46:57] But I appreciate you being on the show.

[00:46:59] We'll do it again, brother.

[00:47:00] You're a gentleman scholar.

[00:47:01] Absolutely.

[00:47:01] Let's talk about it.

[00:47:02] We're kicked back up because there's some legislative action and that's what this podcast is about.

[00:47:07] It's about following the legislature and major political developments.

[00:47:10] And I'd love to have you back.

[00:47:11] You've been – you're a great guest.

[00:47:13] So thanks again for being here.

[00:47:13] Thank you.

[00:47:14] You're an excellent host.

[00:47:15] Thank you.

[00:47:16] Well, that wraps up our conversation with Joe Mapes.

[00:47:19] I felt like that was a really good couple of shows we did there.

[00:47:23] We ran a little long, but again, there was some good stuff covered and I didn't want to cut anything out.

[00:47:28] We'll continue to have conversations about the special session and about Louisiana politics.

[00:47:34] There's also, I heard, a presidential election going on.

[00:47:36] We'll talk a little bit about that in some of our episodes.

[00:47:39] All that's coming very quickly and the fallout from all of that.

[00:47:43] So if you would like to follow us on social media, please do at Pelican Brief 225.

[00:47:49] If you'd like to watch us on YouTube, it's at ThePelicanBrief 225.

[00:47:53] We are always here to have a lively discussion.

[00:47:58] Everyone is invited to be on the show.

[00:48:00] If you'd like to be a guest, reach out to me, David at PelicanBriefPodcast.com.

[00:48:06] We'd love to have you on our show.

[00:48:08] We love to have our listeners and we appreciate your support.

[00:48:13] So thanks again for tuning in.

[00:48:15] That is our show for today.

[00:48:16] We are The Pelican Brief.

[00:48:26] The Pelican Brief is an Offscript production.

[00:48:30] The Pelican Brief is an Offscript production.