Special Session - Tax Reform - Services Tax with Joe Mapes

[00:00:10] Welcome to The Pelican Brief, with your host, David Tatman.

[00:00:28] Welcome to The Pelican Brief. I am your host, David Tatman. Thank you so much for joining us here on Season 3.

[00:00:35] As those of you who have been following our podcast know that we have been focusing in on the special session of the Louisiana legislature called by Governor Jeff Landry to enact tax reform in the state of Louisiana.

[00:00:50] In the first couple of episodes, we talked to veteran lobbyist Joe Mapes.

[00:00:55] We took a little break and spoke with pollster John Cuvion, who gave us an insight on the presidential election.

[00:01:04] And by the way, he was spot on. And then in our last episode, we spoke with Jason Dequeer, who is a tax expert in the state of Louisiana,

[00:01:12] a former staff member of the Louisiana Department of Revenue, worked with some of the biggest tax outfits across the country,

[00:01:20] and now runs Advantos Consulting and is considered to be one of the foremost experts on tax in Louisiana.

[00:01:29] So in this episode, we're going to talk again with veteran lobbyist Joe Mapes,

[00:01:35] and we're going to specifically dive into one bill, and that is House Bill 9.

[00:01:41] One of the parts of this package is the implementation of a service tax.

[00:01:46] So what's a service tax? Well, a service tax is like a sales tax, but instead of it being on a good,

[00:01:53] like something you would buy at the grocery or something, you know, you would buy at a lumber store,

[00:01:58] this is for services, services like lawn care, services like massage therapy.

[00:02:05] Louisiana has a very limited number of services that are taxed to today.

[00:02:09] This would expand it pretty dramatically, would actually add, I believe today there are eight services

[00:02:15] that are currently taxed in the state of Louisiana. This would add over 40 new services.

[00:02:20] And so we thought it would be good for our audience to understand what was going to be taxed

[00:02:26] and how that might impact their everyday lives. So join us for this part of our season.

[00:02:35] It is season three, episode five, and we now join the conversation with veteran lobbyist Joe Mapes.

[00:02:43] Welcome, Joe. Good to have you back on the show as part of our regular recurring guest role.

[00:02:50] We appreciate you being back here and talking a little bit about what we're covering during this season

[00:02:55] of the Pelican Brief, the special session dealing with tax reform.

[00:02:59] Right. Good morning, David. Always a pleasure to be here.

[00:03:01] Always a pleasure to have you.

[00:03:03] Always plenty to talk about, too.

[00:03:04] Oh my goodness. Just in the pre-production show, we probably went, probably covered, save the world.

[00:03:10] Right. We did. We just didn't put it on paper.

[00:03:13] That's right. Well, you know, there's a lot of bills moving through the tax session right now.

[00:03:19] And it's all really incredibly complicated. It's a lot. I mean, you know, we had Jason DeQueer with Advantos Consulting on our last show.

[00:03:30] And as he kept saying over and over again, it's a lot.

[00:03:35] And there's a lot of detail, a lot of things about the tax code that I think people who manage the tax code don't really understand.

[00:03:42] That's not a slight. Right. No. It's just a lot.

[00:03:44] It's a complicated issue. It is.

[00:03:47] And the changes that we're making don't make it, in my opinion, less complicated.

[00:03:50] They make it differently complicated, maybe not more complicated, but clearly it's going to be a lot to swallow in a short period of time.

[00:04:00] But what, as we talked about in pre-production is that we may just narrow in on something that a lot of our listeners have responded to us and told us that was important to them.

[00:04:11] And it's things that more hit them directly that they understand. Right. I mean, the calculation of the income tax, a lot of times there, you know, a piece of software does that or a tax accountant or depending on who you are or whatever the TurboTax or whatever does that for you.

[00:04:28] But this this this this House Bill nine by Representative Reiser that deals with a services tax, something that right now I think what Joe, there are eight services currently taxed in the state of Louisiana.

[00:04:41] I actually wrote it down here earlier this morning and that I think you're correct.

[00:04:47] Yeah, that is correct. Yep. And so this would add a a much larger group of services.

[00:04:54] So right now the services that are taxed are you eight of them? Is that about that?

[00:05:00] That's correct. Yeah. Admission to amusement place, amusement park places, recreational facilities and athletic and recreational events.

[00:05:07] Second one is furnishing of storage or parking privileges by parking lots and auto hotels.

[00:05:14] The third one is laundry, cleaning, pressing and dying of clothing.

[00:05:18] The fifth one is printing and overprinting.

[00:05:21] The sixth one is providing and preparing cold storage.

[00:05:25] The next one is renting or leasing tangible personal property repair.

[00:05:30] The next one after that is repairs to that tangible personal property.

[00:05:34] And the last one is using, consuming, distributing or storing any tangible personal property.

[00:05:39] That's what's taxed now in Louisiana. Right.

[00:05:41] And so that's pretty limited.

[00:05:43] I'm actually don't have a lot of data on who tax, you know, what states tax and what don't.

[00:05:48] I know every state treats it a little bit differently, but I know you've been doing your homework on a lot of this.

[00:05:53] And I think there are some different models.

[00:05:56] We are told that this House Bill 9 is more like how Texas taxes services.

[00:06:03] Is that your understanding?

[00:06:03] And where's the camera?

[00:06:05] The camera?

[00:06:06] I can put those on.

[00:06:08] I'll pop them up.

[00:06:08] Okay.

[00:06:09] So I just read to y'all from Louisiana, the eight.

[00:06:13] Right.

[00:06:14] And by way of comparison, handwritten, there's Texas right there.

[00:06:17] Yeah.

[00:06:17] Right.

[00:06:17] So I'm not sure if Texas is the state that we're using as a model.

[00:06:21] I heard it might be Iowa.

[00:06:23] Yeah.

[00:06:24] Which is, you know, they tax everything.

[00:06:26] Right.

[00:06:26] Everything in Iowa.

[00:06:27] Do they?

[00:06:27] Oh yeah.

[00:06:28] They have everything and they have their tax brackets set, but.

[00:06:30] Well, they have to.

[00:06:31] There's nothing in Iowa.

[00:06:32] Sorry about that, Iowa.

[00:06:34] Thank you for your vote in the last election.

[00:06:37] But the, yeah.

[00:06:39] Yeah.

[00:06:39] So let's talk specifically about some of the added service taxes that people in Louisiana,

[00:06:48] should this entire package pass, people in Louisiana should be ready to be aware that they could have some increased taxes.

[00:06:57] Now, again, this would allow the state to tax at the, well, actually at the today, 4.45.

[00:07:08] Another part of this tax package is whether to renew that expiring .45.

[00:07:13] If, if, if this, if this tax on services passed, but they did not, and it's not a renewal, it's a making permanent of the .45, which is the beginning of a new tax.

[00:07:24] That's right.

[00:07:24] But if that didn't pass, it would only be 4%.

[00:07:27] But it also opens the door, and this is, we heard this last, on last episode from Jason DeQueer, it opens the door for the locals to tax it too.

[00:07:36] So the state will get their 4 or 4.45, but then the locals would be able to, to tax it as well.

[00:07:42] So you're talking about in places like East Baton Rouge around 10%, New Orleans maybe 10 and a half.

[00:07:48] I don't know all the tax, local tax structure around the state of Louisiana because they're all different because they're done locally.

[00:07:55] And then sometimes there's even within a parish, there's a city that might have a tax that if you're inside the city limits.

[00:08:03] But these, these services are services that people use every day, right?

[00:08:08] Well, but what you're not talking about is you're not talking about the break that we're going to get if this package passes from income tax, you know, lowering of income tax.

[00:08:16] That's right.

[00:08:16] You know, putting a, putting a, what is it, stabilized rate on everybody's income.

[00:08:21] Yeah, so what is it, is it three or three and a half?

[00:08:23] I think it's three is what I've, but I've heard all along.

[00:08:27] Right.

[00:08:27] And so today, generally speaking from, remember, we're talking about personal stuff here.

[00:08:32] This is the big seven and a half percent is the corporate income tax rate.

[00:08:37] As I appreciate it, the, the, the rate on the top rate on personal income tax is 4.25.

[00:08:45] That's my understanding.

[00:08:46] Am I, is that yours?

[00:08:47] Yeah.

[00:08:48] And so just a little note, if the legislature did nothing in a different, in addition to the 0.45 rolling off in June of June 30th of next year, this, the citizens would likely get a 6% reduction in their income tax based on a provision that was put in, in 2021 in the budget stabilization fund.

[00:09:11] And in 2021, the legislator said that if the budget stabilization fund reaches a certain threshold, which is a percentage of the overall state budget, that they, that instead of continuing to pump money into the budget stabilization fund, they would give that money back to the taxpayers through a 6% reduction in their state income tax.

[00:09:36] So if you are at that top rate of 4.25, and, and I'm not really good with math, but I did this on a calculator.

[00:09:44] If you take a 6% reduction that on that, then your top rate becomes 3.96.

[00:09:52] And so there's already a built in reduction.

[00:09:55] But if this package passes, it would not go to 3.9.

[00:09:59] It would go to 3.

[00:10:01] Now, I don't know what that means for a lot of people in terms of their income tax, but it is, that would be basically a 25% reduction.

[00:10:10] It's also going to depend on the individual and what types and how many services that individual uses.

[00:10:15] Yeah.

[00:10:15] And I don't, I can't verify these numbers.

[00:10:18] I, I did, I did use AI and one time I slept, I slept at a Holiday Inn Express, but it is my understanding that 60% of Louisiana residents pay 3% or less now.

[00:10:29] Right.

[00:10:29] You and I were talking about that earlier.

[00:10:31] And, and I talked to Jason and he wasn't real sure about it, but he said that wouldn't surprise him.

[00:10:36] Um, so not to put words into his mouth, but we just didn't have the data.

[00:10:40] And frankly, it's really difficult to go find that data.

[00:10:42] So I did a lot of researching late at night with a good glass of wine, uh, in my iPad, but I really couldn't find any definitive source.

[00:10:49] So I will invite anyone who wants to dispute that to come on the show and be our guest.

[00:10:54] How about that?

[00:10:55] But let's talk a little bit about some of these services because when I'm with my friends and I start talking about some of these, they're like, wait, what?

[00:11:02] They're going to tax what?

[00:11:03] And cause they're like, they're in disbelief.

[00:11:06] A lot of them.

[00:11:06] Yeah.

[00:11:07] Because they're not seeing the, the, the sort of things that would, they believe will affect them more directly.

[00:11:12] And so let's talk about it, but want to pick out a couple of key ones?

[00:11:16] Well, we're sure.

[00:11:17] I mean, we went down the list for Louisiana, so let's just go to Texas and, and, and compare, uh, right off the bat, you've got the first one that we listed in Texas is janitorial and custodial services,

[00:11:32] which is not taxed in Louisiana currently.

[00:11:35] Landscaping, lawn care, and tree services, uh, is not currently taxed in Louisiana and is in Texas.

[00:11:41] Laundry cleaning and garment services, uh, massage, uh, manufacturing of anything, you know, fabrication and putting things together.

[00:11:48] Uh, non-residential real property, which is repair and restoration, remodeling, personal property, maintenance, remodeling, or repair such as shoe shining, uh, appliance repair or upholstering.

[00:12:02] Uh, what's that, what also is taxed in Texas and not in Louisiana, not in Louisiana is pest control, pet grooming, photography and videography, painting, security services like locksmiths and alarm installation, monitoring, private investigation, and armed couriers.

[00:12:18] Uh, Turkish baths, which I didn't even know we had any Turkish baths.

[00:12:21] I didn't either, but I'm going to look that up when I'm drinking wine next time.

[00:12:24] Uh, apparently there, they have some in Texas.

[00:12:27] Turkish bath.

[00:12:28] That's right.

[00:12:28] What if it's like, what if it's a Pakistani bath?

[00:12:30] Is that, uh, also, I don't know.

[00:12:33] I'm not that well steeped, you know, to answer that question in, in, in that cultural matter.

[00:12:40] Vehicle parking and storage, uh, welding and woodworking.

[00:12:43] And that's just, if you saw me hold up the list earlier, that's just a portion of Texas's list.

[00:12:50] Um, you know, and, um, again, in Iowa, they tax everything.

[00:12:55] And, um, in Alaska, oh, this is interesting.

[00:13:00] We went over which states don't have income tax.

[00:13:04] Alaska, Nevada, and then compared them with what services are taxed.

[00:13:09] Uh, Alaska, Nevada, South Dakota, Tennessee.

[00:13:16] Washington, Wyoming, Arkansas.

[00:13:20] Nope, not Arkansas.

[00:13:21] I'm sorry.

[00:13:21] But that was it after Wyoming.

[00:13:24] So, uh, those, these states have no income tax.

[00:13:27] Wyoming, let's just pick them randomly.

[00:13:29] No income tax, but they have a tax on admission to places, amusement parks, entertainment, just like Louisiana and Texas.

[00:13:35] Uh, leasing and renting tangible personal property, which Texas has, which Louisiana wants in this package.

[00:13:42] Repairs and alterations and improvements to tangible personal property.

[00:13:45] Same as Texas and Louisiana.

[00:13:47] And then transportation of, transportation of passengers intrastate in Wyoming.

[00:13:52] So, they have no income tax and only four taxes on services in Wyoming.

[00:13:58] So, yeah.

[00:14:00] Yeah.

[00:14:00] Uh, maybe there's a happy medium between Iowa and Wyoming.

[00:14:05] Yeah.

[00:14:05] And, of course, taxing can be such a complicated deal because you wonder what their property taxes look like.

[00:14:12] Because we, of course, have local property taxes, but there is no state property tax.

[00:14:17] So, that may be a little bit different.

[00:14:20] Of course, you know, again, not to pick on Iowa and Wyoming.

[00:14:23] I love both of those states, but, and Wyoming's amazing, right?

[00:14:27] Yes.

[00:14:27] It's a beautiful state.

[00:14:28] Yes.

[00:14:28] But there's just not a lot there.

[00:14:30] You know, there's just not a big population.

[00:14:33] Beautiful national parks, but probably their services are a lot different.

[00:14:38] The other thing I always wonder, too, about this is when we start talking, you know, there have been a lot of comparisons in saying, we want to be like North Carolina in this way.

[00:14:47] We want to be like Texas in this way.

[00:14:50] We want to be like other states in this way.

[00:14:52] Neighboring states is always, you know, a ruler.

[00:14:55] Yeah.

[00:14:55] Particularly in perhaps some socioeconomic similarities.

[00:14:59] Like, take, for example, poverty.

[00:15:01] I mean, that's a big deal, right?

[00:15:02] We are one of the most impoverished states in the country.

[00:15:06] I always say we run neck and neck with Mississippi, but I think West Virginia's there.

[00:15:12] They have a lot of impoverished areas.

[00:15:15] And when you have an impoverished population like that, things change a lot because you have a lot of people who are not making enough money or not working because of a variety of reasons to be able to contribute to the system in a way that you would if you were in another state that has a very low poverty area.

[00:15:33] I mean, population.

[00:15:36] So it certainly is, I think, you got to try to compare apples to apples.

[00:15:43] I don't know as much about Texas, but Texas seems to be rocking it along with Florida and other states like that.

[00:15:50] That's why people are moving to those states because of those reasons.

[00:15:54] But, yeah, so I kind of went through the list, too.

[00:15:58] And I guess you and I kind of went through it and found a few that we didn't really necessarily know were on there, like water and sewer service.

[00:16:07] Mm-hmm.

[00:16:07] You know?

[00:16:09] And I don't really feel like I pay a lot for that because it doesn't ever seem like a lot, but that's compared to, like, an electricity bill.

[00:16:19] Right.

[00:16:19] Right.

[00:16:20] In Tennessee, interestingly enough, animal bathing is taxed but not animal grooming.

[00:16:27] So I'm wondering what the bathers did to piss everybody off.

[00:16:31] I don't know, but I will tell you this.

[00:16:33] I will tell you this.

[00:16:34] So I was with the secretary, and we were talking.

[00:16:37] We were just having fun with it.

[00:16:39] Look, he's trying to – he's a smart guy.

[00:16:41] Oh, yeah.

[00:16:41] And he's trying to do what's best.

[00:16:41] We said that last time.

[00:16:42] He's brilliant.

[00:16:43] And, you know, he's one of those people.

[00:16:46] He and Susan Bourgeois, they don't have to turn back to their staff and ask the question.

[00:16:51] They know the answers to the questions, right?

[00:16:52] They are –

[00:16:53] That's funny.

[00:16:53] I sat behind Richard and Julie.

[00:16:57] They were getting ready to testify on appropriations the other day, and they were all nervous – not nervous,

[00:17:02] but they were sitting up straight and getting ready for the gavel to drop.

[00:17:05] And I said, hey, Richard, I got your back.

[00:17:07] And he turned around, and I said, you too, Julie.

[00:17:09] It was just a fun moment.

[00:17:10] But, well, Julie did – I'm sorry, Representative Emerson did like our podcast, so I think that's a good first step.

[00:17:17] It is.

[00:17:18] If she wants to come on, I'd love to have her.

[00:17:20] You know how we feel about this.

[00:17:22] It's open mic.

[00:17:23] I'm not debating it one way or the other.

[00:17:26] I'm just simply having the conversation because we, you know, we send out our regular communications to our clients,

[00:17:33] but this is a way to give them a little bit of a deeper dive.

[00:17:35] It's not a paragraph or two because that's really all they want to read.

[00:17:38] But if they're driving along and are bored, they can tune in to us and listen to us dig a little bit deeper into it.

[00:17:46] But anyway, back to the secretary at I's conversation.

[00:17:49] He said, yeah, you know, if you decide you want to go buy a bucket and some chemicals to wash your car, you can do that yourself.

[00:17:58] Or you can pay to have it done and you can pay the tax on it.

[00:18:02] If you want to have your dog, you know, shampooed and groomed, you can do it yourself, buy the stuff you need, or you can pay someone to do it.

[00:18:11] And I asked him, I said, well, what about a haircut?

[00:18:14] You don't want me cutting my hair.

[00:18:17] And there are a lot of things in here, though, that you can't do yourself, right?

[00:18:21] Right.

[00:18:21] Let's go back to the lawn service.

[00:18:25] What do we call it?

[00:18:26] Lawn maintenance, landscaping, things like that.

[00:18:29] You know, I actually loved cutting my grass.

[00:18:32] And the only reason I ever stopped is wanted to buy some time back to spend with my children.

[00:18:36] I probably will go as I get older to cut grass, but I won't be cutting it for long.

[00:18:41] I'm, you know, going to get to the point where I'm probably going to have to hire somebody to do that because it's probably not smart health-wise for me to be out there and be 75 years old pushing a lawnmower.

[00:18:49] I know there are a lot of strong 75-year-olds.

[00:18:52] I won't be one of them.

[00:18:53] That's not one of your goals.

[00:18:54] But there are a lot of elderly people who pay for those services.

[00:18:57] There are a lot of people who are, you know, handicapped in one way or the other who pay for those services.

[00:19:03] I'll give you an example on my dog.

[00:19:05] I have a poodle mix.

[00:19:07] It's a Yorkie poo.

[00:19:08] I can't cut his hair.

[00:19:10] He doesn't have fur.

[00:19:11] He has hair.

[00:19:12] And I'm telling you, if I didn't cut him, he would die.

[00:19:14] I mean, if we didn't get him groomed, he would die.

[00:19:16] And I can't do that.

[00:19:17] I don't even know where I would start, you know.

[00:19:19] We do shampoo our own dog, though, by the way.

[00:19:21] But there are some services that are going to be, you know, as we look at it, I'll give you an example.

[00:19:29] Painting and wallpapering of, you know, immovable property, except where painting and wallpapering is incidental to the repair, maintenance, or installation service.

[00:19:38] You know, replacement of a heating or air conditioning unit.

[00:19:43] That's already incredibly expensive.

[00:19:46] Right.

[00:19:46] You go, you, and look, in south Louisiana, the first month of summer, which is usually like, you know, April, and it gets really hot, air conditioning systems start going out.

[00:19:57] Oh, yeah.

[00:19:57] Left and right.

[00:19:58] And, I mean, how often do you get an air condition when something has to be changed or taken out and it's not thousands of dollars?

[00:20:05] Oh, yeah.

[00:20:05] So you're going to put a 10% tax on top of that.

[00:20:08] Right.

[00:20:09] That's kind of a big deal.

[00:20:10] And here you've got, you and I discussed this prior to the podcast, but you pointed out on line 12, page 3, that we've got water and sewer, water or sewer service, electricity or pipe natural gas, video programming, which I guess is, you know, broadband.

[00:20:28] But the question is, is this residential as well?

[00:20:31] Or is this, you know, commercial transportation of these services?

[00:20:36] Yeah.

[00:20:36] And so that's a little unclear to me, and then I want to address this down here on the same page, line 21.

[00:20:43] We were talking about a labor tax, and, you know, insurance companies, if this would be applied, would have to put it on their claims, and we're told that it would increase insurance costs by a minimum of 2% to 3% if these labor taxes were put on it.

[00:21:02] Now, I did talk with somebody at the Department of Revenue at the end of last week.

[00:21:07] They said today, which is Monday for the listeners, today amendments are going to come out on the Internet that should remove storms from that tax and remove industrial claims, which I didn't really understand.

[00:21:22] But the point is, if that's done for insurance company purposes, that won't have any teeth in it.

[00:21:28] It won't be an issue for them.

[00:21:29] Well, yeah, it wouldn't be.

[00:21:30] And I wonder, it would be a great conversation to have with Commissioner Temple, because you just said something that, you know, I had a brain spark.

[00:21:41] It doesn't happen a lot these days, Joe, but it was, it's, you know, homeowners policies are fire policies.

[00:21:49] The whole idea of wind and all that, that's an add-on, that's a, you know, it's a different deal.

[00:21:55] And so does it apply, if it applies to storms, does it apply to fire or other natural disasters?

[00:22:00] Does it apply to flood?

[00:22:02] Well, actually, in that conversation, I said named storms.

[00:22:06] Is that what you're talking about?

[00:22:08] And the person said, no, just, you know, storms, just disasters.

[00:22:11] So I think the answer to your question, according to my conversation, it would all be included.

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[00:23:08] Now, I did notice that it does have auto repair on there.

[00:23:13] Is that not one of the ones that they had?

[00:23:15] I'm going to have to flip through my pages.

[00:23:17] I wonder how that would be different from labor, a labor tax.

[00:23:20] I don't know.

[00:23:21] As you know, I continue to beat this dead horse to death, which is the double negative.

[00:23:32] The top three reasons that people don't come to Louisiana is insurance, insurance, and insurance.

[00:23:38] The top one being auto insurance, the second one being property insurance, and the third one being flood insurance.

[00:23:45] And so if you're going to actually – look, I could be wrong, but I thought that I saw something in here about auto repair, body services.

[00:23:57] And I'll look through here while you're talking next time to try to see if I can find those.

[00:24:03] But that is something that I wonder, and the point of that big old brain fart is does that impact the actuaries?

[00:24:14] In other words, does – because in the end, insurance rates are set by actuarial reports.

[00:24:19] And so does putting a tax on that – because I'm thinking they pay it, right?

[00:24:24] The insurance company would be paying it.

[00:24:26] And so, therefore, if they would have a 3% or 4% or 10% increase in the cost of their claims, you would think that they would have to account for that actuarially.

[00:24:38] Right.

[00:24:38] You would think so.

[00:24:39] And as it is, claims are already very expensive.

[00:24:42] I know I have – look, I have a project going on at my house, a big renovation going on because I didn't do anything for 20 years, and now I'm paying for it.

[00:24:50] But I'm telling them, go fast.

[00:24:54] Get done before the end of the year.

[00:24:56] I'm not paying you on January 1st.

[00:24:58] Right, right.

[00:24:59] But it's going to be a really interesting piece.

[00:25:03] You know, you were mentioning earlier about convention centers, and we were talking about Airbnbs, and we got off into talking about how Airbnbs would be under sleeping rooms, cottages, cabins, rooms, suites.

[00:25:18] But also convention centers.

[00:25:21] And what was the point that you were making about –

[00:25:24] Yeah, I guess the point that I was making is I don't know if I know exactly what – but it said room rentals, right?

[00:25:30] And it said convention center.

[00:25:32] It said – and then when you look at the little – not in the law itself, but in the little blurb, it says special events, things like that.

[00:25:38] And, you know, we're sort of in that business.

[00:25:40] I mean, I would say on a medium scale – we're not large scale, but on the medium scale, you know, we – for nonprofit organizations, we only put on conferences and conventions and events for nonprofit organizations.

[00:25:53] But clearly we would be hit by it.

[00:25:55] Not only the services that we provide to help put the event together, that would be taxed, but so would the room rentals, so would the hotel rentals, so would everything involved with that.

[00:26:05] Now, remember – and you know this, Joe, because you're kind of in that world, too.

[00:26:09] You work for a lot of associations that are nonprofits.

[00:26:11] Does that include all of the things that come with it?

[00:26:14] Because, you know, oftentimes you have a gift when they get there.

[00:26:16] You know, you'll have like a bag or a backpack with a logo on it.

[00:26:20] Does it include all of that?

[00:26:21] Because if you start increasing the costs by 10% of a convention or a conference, that gets pretty pricey because we are already having hotels that are pricing us out of the market as small nonprofits.

[00:26:36] But my point to you was I think of the National Automobile Dealers Association.

[00:26:42] They, I think, are in rotation to come to New Orleans.

[00:26:45] They've been here many times.

[00:26:46] The National Funeral Directors Association, like a month ago, had their national conference in New Orleans.

[00:26:53] When they are getting prices of where to go, does it become 10% more expensive to come to New Orleans than it would be to go to San Diego or Iowa?

[00:27:04] Get it.

[00:27:05] I get it.

[00:27:06] New Orleans is a draw, right?

[00:27:07] People want to come to New Orleans.

[00:27:08] Definitely.

[00:27:09] Maybe not Des Moines.

[00:27:10] But – and all of our listeners in Des Moines, I'm sorry.

[00:27:14] But – one of them.

[00:27:17] But the reality of it is is that will that – because price – those price points make a difference, right?

[00:27:24] And, again, I can't speak to a national conference like that because I've never put one on.

[00:27:28] But I can tell you when we're sitting there deciding whether we're going to Lake Charles or Baton Rouge or New Orleans or Alexandria or Shreveport, there's a lot of factors.

[00:27:36] What would the turnout be like?

[00:27:38] What historically –

[00:27:38] So you're talking about definition.

[00:27:39] What would be the definition of what would be taxed basically at a conference?

[00:27:45] And how will it affect their – would it be a deterrent for people to come to Louisiana as opposed to going to Chicago or San Diego, Vegas, all those hot spots for conferences?

[00:27:58] Because there's kind of a circuit for that sort of stuff.

[00:28:00] No doubt.

[00:28:01] No doubt.

[00:28:01] You and I have been on it for about 40 years.

[00:28:04] Yeah.

[00:28:04] I just wish they would put some – I remember when Seattle was on the circuit.

[00:28:07] I mean, I loved it.

[00:28:08] It was a great place to go.

[00:28:09] They took that one off.

[00:28:10] Well, San Francisco used to be on the circuit.

[00:28:12] It's really not anymore.

[00:28:14] Chicago's big.

[00:28:14] New York, D.C.

[00:28:17] You know, Atlanta's growing into that space.

[00:28:19] Nashville's too.

[00:28:20] I was just about to interrupt and say Nashville, yeah.

[00:28:24] You go to two of them a year there sometimes.

[00:28:26] So if you're thinking about going to Nashville or you're thinking about coming to New Orleans and you add that 10% as an offset on a cost,

[00:28:33] does it make it more economically advantageous to go to another city?

[00:28:37] So I don't know.

[00:28:38] And time would be the only test that can answer that question.

[00:28:41] That's right.

[00:28:42] That's right as a deterrent.

[00:28:43] And, you know, if they do come, that's a lot of money.

[00:28:46] It's going to generate a lot of money for the states to ask.

[00:28:48] You know, you're talking about, you know, what would be included in the definition.

[00:28:51] You know, would it be a gift basket that's in the room upon your arrival, you know, for all the members and this, that, and the other.

[00:28:56] And it makes me think of logistics, okay?

[00:28:59] So who's going to police this?

[00:29:01] Is it going to be the state or is it going to be the locals?

[00:29:05] And, again, you and I have been around this business for a while.

[00:29:07] If the state is now, or even the locals, a government entity is required to do something, the first thing they say is, well, we're going to need more personnel.

[00:29:16] And so currently I can tell you that the state nor locals has the personnel to go out and police this and says, hey, you're a lobbyist.

[00:29:23] I know you're a lobbyist.

[00:29:24] I saw you speaking, you know, to some politicians the other night, and I'm going to write you up for not reporting yourself as being a lobbyist.

[00:29:31] I go, no, hey, hey, I'm just a legislative specialist.

[00:29:34] I'm not a lobbyist.

[00:29:36] Wait a minute.

[00:29:37] I like it.

[00:29:38] We really need to do is we need to come up with some other definition of our own, you know.

[00:29:44] I tell the story all the time.

[00:29:46] Nobody really knows what I do for a living.

[00:29:48] And when my mom was alive, I had a cousin who came down to the Capitol, and she'd say, oh, yeah, I saw your son at the Capitol.

[00:29:55] What does he do again?

[00:29:56] And she'd say, I don't know.

[00:29:57] He goes to the Capitol, and people pay him.

[00:29:59] That's great, right?

[00:30:00] I wish it was that easy, right?

[00:30:01] Just show up.

[00:30:02] If it was, everybody would be in our profession.

[00:30:04] Yes.

[00:30:05] We talked about that last time.

[00:30:06] That's right.

[00:30:06] That's right.

[00:30:06] It would be an easy entry.

[00:30:08] But it's a little bit more difficult than that.

[00:30:11] You know, one of the things that when talking about this, again, I'm not against it.

[00:30:16] I actually do think we need some reform.

[00:30:18] No, I agree with you.

[00:30:19] Yeah.

[00:30:19] I agree with you 100%.

[00:30:20] We need reform.

[00:30:21] I mean, you can look at these other states, and they're managing.

[00:30:24] Right.

[00:30:24] Okay, but they didn't get there overnight.

[00:30:26] Right.

[00:30:26] That's always been my contention.

[00:30:28] You know, let's make sure we're doing this thing the right way.

[00:30:30] That's all.

[00:30:31] Yeah.

[00:30:31] And Richard's ideas, the administration's ideas, they're great ideas.

[00:30:36] My only concern has been we're moving so fast.

[00:30:38] If it was me having to make decisions on all of this in, you know, such a short period of time, I'd feel responsible.

[00:30:45] And I'd want to make sure I was making the right decisions.

[00:30:48] That's all.

[00:30:48] Yeah.

[00:30:48] You know, but we definitely need reform, anybody listening to this.

[00:30:52] Yeah.

[00:30:52] I am all for reform.

[00:30:54] I never had anybody complain to me about extending the .45, but I think we have to be, well, again, we're not extending it.

[00:31:02] We're making it permanent.

[00:31:03] If we go back, John Bell put it in because we had a major fiscal cliff.

[00:31:08] It was a penny at first.

[00:31:10] When we got our fiscal house in order, I'm not saying we did a lot on tax reform, but we were able to balance our budgets moving forward.

[00:31:17] And we should have gotten it off the books then.

[00:31:19] That's right.

[00:31:19] We came back, and I'm not going to mention anybody's name, you know, Lance Harris, that, you know, authored the bill to extend the .45 for the next legislative body.

[00:31:31] Yeah, a bunch of them did, too, and it didn't pass.

[00:31:33] It took an exceptional legislator to get it through, somebody that everybody got along with.

[00:31:38] But, yeah, and, I mean, the thing about it is I just feel like we need to be honest about what's going on.

[00:31:46] I mean, making it permanent is so I learned a little bit from Jason.

[00:31:52] It's $455 million.

[00:31:54] That's the estimate, the current estimate for what it would be, $455 million.

[00:31:58] And so to say, yeah, we're going to, you know, renew it.

[00:32:01] No, we're not really renewing it.

[00:32:02] We're making it permanent.

[00:32:04] It's going to be 4.45, which puts us up there in terms of sales taxes across the country.

[00:32:09] So, you know, that's a lot.

[00:32:11] And then—

[00:32:11] It'll be a new tax.

[00:32:13] Yeah.

[00:32:13] It is no doubt.

[00:32:14] So I was talking to a legislator the other day.

[00:32:16] He said, listen, if a man, you know, has a child, you know, that's not a renewal.

[00:32:21] That's a new person.

[00:32:25] Yeah, talk about expensive.

[00:32:27] Having a couple of those, I know you know that experience.

[00:32:30] But, yeah, and, like, I'll tell you, so some of the unintended—again, for reform, I think there's a lot of things that we need to do.

[00:32:39] And I'm not an elected official, so I can say this.

[00:32:41] I think we desperately need a gas tax.

[00:32:44] We need—and the reason I like a gas tax, Joe, and I know you may disagree because you represent a different constituency, but it's really—it's like a road use program, right?

[00:32:54] You pay gas tax the more you use that gas.

[00:32:57] I know that there are gas, you know, gas and fuels used for other things like farming, which you're big into.

[00:33:02] But broadly, most gasoline is used for cars and trucks that are traveling the road.

[00:33:07] And when I say gas, you know what I mean?

[00:33:08] Diesel, the whole thing.

[00:33:10] Gas prices are down.

[00:33:11] They're going to continue to go down now that we have a new president because it's drill, baby, drill.

[00:33:16] You're going to see oil and gas prices go down.

[00:33:19] This is the perfect time to put a tax on to help build the sort of infrastructure that we need.

[00:33:24] We're behind.

[00:33:25] We're way behind.

[00:33:26] And so I do think that we need some tax reform.

[00:33:28] But I do love those taxes that are very specific, and you charge that tax for what you do, and as opposed to a broader tax that may cause somebody some difficulties.

[00:33:41] And let me give you a little bit of an example.

[00:33:43] And full disclosure, I represent the film industry.

[00:33:46] And they're talking about the money that they're going to get back.

[00:33:49] And when you look at the economic impact, they say we don't get our return on investment when yet every dollar they put up, it generates $6 in revenue.

[00:33:57] I heard that testimony.

[00:33:58] Yeah.

[00:33:58] It's pretty strong.

[00:33:59] I thought the guys with Film Louisiana did a really, really good job.

[00:34:03] But one of the things that's happening right now, and I'm not going to name names either, but a prominent official in Jefferson Parish, a prominent official in St. Tammany Parish, a prominent official in Caddo, prominent official in Baton Rouge have all said, well, what happens if you get rid of that program to the sales taxes we collect on the work that they do?

[00:34:24] And it's big, because when you talk about $150 million program, and again, there are pockets more where the production is.

[00:34:32] I mean, it's all over.

[00:34:33] But specifically, sales tax pockets, it's a big deal.

[00:34:38] And the answer to that question, and Secretary Nelson answered it last night, is no, it's not calculated in the overall figure.

[00:34:46] So there just are a lot of moving parts, because think about the inventory tax that's part of this, and we're not going to get down in the weeds of that,

[00:34:53] because it's so complicated.

[00:34:54] We may come back and do a different show on inventory.

[00:34:56] Well, let me oversimplify it for you.

[00:34:58] Every tax is the inventory tax.

[00:35:01] Yes, that's right.

[00:35:01] That's right.

[00:35:02] And so, but I'll give you another one, that this whole thing about remodeling, and to restore, improve, alter, or update an immovable property.

[00:35:13] Well, I buy, I have a side gig, where I go in and I buy, I buy houses.

[00:35:20] I don't buy apartments, because I don't know that I'd be good at apartments, but I've been pretty good at houses.

[00:35:24] I usually go into really nice neighborhoods.

[00:35:27] You know, not, I don't go in, I'm not a slum board.

[00:35:29] I go into a nice neighborhood, find a really good deal on a house, hire a contractor.

[00:35:34] I renovate that project, and now that project's going to cost me 10% more to do it.

[00:35:40] And that is a little bit, it changes my margins, right?

[00:35:44] And I, by doing that, though, Joe, I create a greater value for that property that then the locals assess.

[00:35:53] At a higher value.

[00:35:54] That's right.

[00:35:55] That's right, yeah.

[00:35:55] So it creates a disincentive to do that.

[00:35:58] Am I going to quit doing that?

[00:35:59] No, but I will tell you this, I'm probably, I set a budget.

[00:36:02] I go buy a house, let's say $250,000.

[00:36:05] I get a really good deal.

[00:36:06] It's a $300,000 house, I get it for $250,000.

[00:36:08] I go in and say, okay, I can put $40,000 into this, and make it worth $320,000 or $330,000, right?

[00:36:14] That's kind of how it generally works.

[00:36:16] Now I've got to take 10% off of that, because it's not David just being artistic.

[00:36:22] It's me looking at it and saying, this is what I need to make this project work for me to be willing to invest my money.

[00:36:29] And so I would hate for it to be a disincentive, but it could end up being a disincentive.

[00:36:36] And I don't, again, don't know what that means.

[00:36:39] Now I'm remodeling right now, and as I told you, I am going to be pounding my contractors to get through on December 31st,

[00:36:46] because after that, David Tattman's going to be swinging a hammer in a paintbrush.

[00:36:50] Oh, it's hilarious.

[00:36:51] But anyway, a couple of other ones is it looks like, and again, I don't know that I understand it,

[00:36:58] but it does look like Airbnbs, short-term rentals would be a part of this.

[00:37:03] Cottages, cabins, rooms, suites, condominiums, townhouses, rental houses, or other accommodations by hotels,

[00:37:11] apartment hotels, lodging houses, tourist camps, tourist courts, property management companies,

[00:37:16] accommodations, intermediaries, or any other provider or seller of accommodations to transient guests.

[00:37:24] So pretty much got you covered there.

[00:37:26] Yeah, that's a lot.

[00:37:28] Printing, copying, you know, that's where cab services, car washes.

[00:37:34] And I get, you know, I thought Richard made a really good point on this because, you know, even not that long ago,

[00:37:40] 10 years ago, when you, if you wanted to go to a car wash, you know, you had a couple of them you could pump some coins into

[00:37:47] and you could roll through, but you, for the most part, we would go to those big, you know, where they had like four bays

[00:37:52] and you put some quarters in there and you do it yourself kind of a deal.

[00:37:55] Now you've got, you've got subscriptions because I have one.

[00:37:59] I'm not, not to plug my, my subscription service, but I go to Benny's and I pay a monthly fee and I go as many times as I want.

[00:38:06] And I get that.

[00:38:07] So, you know, but that's, that'll go up by 10%.

[00:38:11] But see, those are services that you could choose to not use.

[00:38:14] Yeah.

[00:38:15] I could go home and wash my own truck.

[00:38:16] But that, but it goes to my point earlier that, you know, the situation is going to depend on the individual.

[00:38:24] Right.

[00:38:24] You know, and, and, and what their lifestyle is and what services they use on a regular basis.

[00:38:29] Right.

[00:38:29] Now I can, and I could hire a college student to wash my truck.

[00:38:34] Right.

[00:38:35] Is that, well, is that taxable?

[00:38:37] I would say yes.

[00:38:39] Yeah.

[00:38:39] Yeah, it is.

[00:38:40] And is he a remitter then a tax remitter or is it you that, you know,

[00:38:44] do you send him a W9?

[00:38:45] The only problem I have with that is that I like the deal where I can go anytime I want.

[00:38:50] I don't think my college student is going to be available anytime I want.

[00:38:53] Because he's going to be busy studying.

[00:38:55] Yeah.

[00:38:55] By the way, that was my son and then he moved away.

[00:38:57] So now I don't have a car washer anymore.

[00:39:01] Storage units, auto club service.

[00:39:04] I guess that's like AAA, I guess.

[00:39:07] Car wash services we talked about.

[00:39:10] Coin operated machines.

[00:39:13] Timeshare, timeshare exchange, condominium services.

[00:39:16] I love this one.

[00:39:17] This is my favorite one.

[00:39:19] Dating and social matching services and marriage bureaus.

[00:39:24] We're going to tax marriage bureaus.

[00:39:26] I didn't even know what a marriage bureau, do you know what a marriage bureau is?

[00:39:29] A marriage bureau?

[00:39:30] That's what it says.

[00:39:31] It's on page nine, line two.

[00:39:34] I think that's one of those antiquated phrases that, you know, used to be around when they first wrote the laws in Louisiana.

[00:39:41] Because I don't know, I've never heard of a marriage bureau in Louisiana.

[00:39:44] I haven't either, but I'm sure it's in here.

[00:39:47] Nailing services, lobbying services, linen services, landscaping, lawn care, and horticulture.

[00:39:53] Personal fitness training, pet grooming, boarding, photography, security services as defined in proposed law.

[00:40:03] Repossession services.

[00:40:06] I like the one on page nine, line five.

[00:40:12] Non-medical diet and weight reduction services, including but not limited to weight loss services, not prescribed by a health care provider.

[00:40:21] Home gyms?

[00:40:22] Wagovi.

[00:40:23] Is that the Wagovi prescription?

[00:40:24] Maybe, maybe.

[00:40:26] It's the Wagovi-Ozempic provision.

[00:40:28] Yeah, I don't know.

[00:40:29] Yeah, gyms, you're right.

[00:40:32] We probably need more people in gyms, but that is definitely a one.

[00:40:37] Let's talk about something I find curious about this.

[00:40:41] And I'm curious why I think a lot of people don't know about this session.

[00:40:46] I think they don't know the content of this session.

[00:40:50] But I spoke to a group, and I spoke like I'm speaking right here to you about, you know, these provisions that are these proposed provisions.

[00:40:59] And there's about 125 of them this past Thursday in Biloxi.

[00:41:03] And they were non-reactive.

[00:41:07] And so, you know, I find it a little bit curious that people aren't more, you know, interested in what's going on with something that could possibly affect their pocketbook in a positive or negative way.

[00:41:23] Because, you know, if you're the state, if you're Richard and you're behind this, you feel like it's all going to be a positive change in the end.

[00:41:30] Most people don't – they fear change in general.

[00:41:34] Right.

[00:41:34] If they've got a big change coming with their taxes and possibly their pocketbook, I'm just curious why more people aren't interested in this.

[00:41:40] And what's your thoughts on that?

[00:41:41] My thoughts on that, Joe, because you and I talked about that earlier, and I'm glad you prepped me for it.

[00:41:47] But my thought is that it's so much that they're not – they can't become granular on it.

[00:41:54] They can't – they don't understand it because what everybody's talking about is getting rid of the income tax.

[00:42:02] That sounds like a great thing.

[00:42:03] They're lowering the income tax, but nobody's talking about the other ones.

[00:42:07] And they'll say, yeah, there's a service tax.

[00:42:08] And, you know, was it – I don't remember the senator's name, but it was, you know, don't tax you, don't tax me, tax the man behind the tree, right?

[00:42:16] And so everybody –

[00:42:16] I believe that was Huey Long.

[00:42:17] Yeah.

[00:42:18] So you think that – when you think about that, that's probably it.

[00:42:22] But, you know, you make a great point, and I want to bring this up because I don't want to be seen as an obstructionist.

[00:42:27] Right, me either.

[00:42:28] A $1.3 billion reduction in income tax.

[00:42:31] I mean, it's more than just income tax, but a $1.3 billion reduction in taxes.

[00:42:39] A corresponding $1.6 billion increase in taxes in different ways.

[00:42:45] So you're going to – like you said, you're going to not pay certain things.

[00:42:50] You know, certain things – your income tax is going to be a little lower.

[00:42:54] There's going to be other taxes that you may not pay, but you've got to make up those taxes.

[00:42:58] Somehow, right?

[00:42:59] We are moving forward to where we'll have an $800 million change in funding.

[00:43:05] The budget shortfall, I was corrected by, Jason, I think next year is like in the $500 million range.

[00:43:11] Really?

[00:43:11] But if you look at it, we're going to have a $700 million to $800 million change in revenue with the .45 in the budget stabilization.

[00:43:19] So in that scenario, we'll have a surplus.

[00:43:21] That's right.

[00:43:21] But the next year, that's when – if we did nothing, that's when all of that would hit.

[00:43:25] And, of course, you don't want to lose the services.

[00:43:27] And there was a great conversation yesterday about – that the digital folks talked about and that the historic folks talked about, specifically the historic folks.

[00:43:37] And by the way, that wasn't yesterday.

[00:43:38] That was the Friday testimony.

[00:43:40] When they said that we used the digital tax incentive to bring down federal money and basically said if this passes in the way it is, that this one gentleman who was at the table would take 200 jobs and move them somewhere else.

[00:43:57] And it's not just the Louisiana tax, but they draw down millions in federal –

[00:44:03] So it's attached to a program, a federal program.

[00:44:06] And that's why we can't have a $700 million budget shortfall because we have so much federal match when it comes to things like health care, you know, Medicaid, you know, all of Medicare, all of those things where we do match dollars.

[00:44:19] And you know a lot about that as well.

[00:44:21] And so, you know, I think to your point, I think that it's – people are just not paying attention to it because it's so much.

[00:44:33] And, of course, they're not going to want taxes on this or that.

[00:44:38] But if they don't know about it or they don't know it's coming, then they'll be surprised by it.

[00:44:43] And the surprise will likely go to the laps of legislators, right?

[00:44:48] You gave me an income tax reduction, a $1.3 billion income tax reduction.

[00:44:54] But now I pay these taxes on this and this and this.

[00:44:58] And then the other part of it is those businesses who become remitters because, you know, there's a lobbying tax in there.

[00:45:05] I don't care about the lobbying tax.

[00:45:07] I don't pay it.

[00:45:07] But I don't want to be a remitter.

[00:45:09] Right.

[00:45:09] Because remitting in the state of Louisiana because of centralized or lack of a centralized sales tax system is nightmares.

[00:45:17] Yeah.

[00:45:17] I know small –

[00:45:18] You have 64 parishes and I think you have 67 different systems.

[00:45:22] I'm joking.

[00:45:23] But with the cities that have –

[00:45:25] No, I think you're correct.

[00:45:25] The cities that have their own systems within the parishes, you really do have more than 64.

[00:45:29] And in some places it's a gotcha mentality.

[00:45:30] But none of them have, you know, software that merges with each other.

[00:45:36] And it's tough to run a retail business in Louisiana and keep your records with taxes accurate with all the different –

[00:45:43] Yeah.

[00:45:43] I've got a friend of mine who's a wholesaler of beauty products, a couple that have liquid assets.

[00:45:49] It's a major operation.

[00:45:51] They have a full-time person just for remitting sales taxes across the state.

[00:45:55] That's one full-time person for remitting those taxes.

[00:45:57] Not because – because it's complicated, right?

[00:46:01] And if you – and it's a gotcha.

[00:46:02] If you make a mistake, the fines are high.

[00:46:05] And even if you don't make a mistake, you've got to go through the trouble of –

[00:46:09] Sounds like the ethics department.

[00:46:11] Don't cross a T or dot an I and you've got a fine with the ethics department.

[00:46:15] Yeah.

[00:46:15] You just go ahead and you suck it up and move along, right?

[00:46:17] That's right.

[00:46:18] That's right.

[00:46:18] So some of the other ones are – I thought were interesting that I wanted to bring in is polling.

[00:46:24] People don't care about that.

[00:46:25] But that's an interesting one to add.

[00:46:27] I don't know if that's – server – process servers, people who serve you with lawsuits and things like that.

[00:46:34] I think that's a really –

[00:46:35] Marina services with your –

[00:46:37] Yeah.

[00:46:38] Well, so fishermen, what do you call them, charter operators, and all of the things that go with that.

[00:46:46] So there is a whole list.

[00:46:48] And what I would suggest, Joe, is that people – and we put this in the show notes all the time and we put this in our communications – is that this is House Bill 9 by Representative Neal Reiser.

[00:47:00] This bill is actually, I think, going to be heard in committee this week until – I think it's Wednesday.

[00:47:05] Oh, I heard tomorrow, but it's going to be Wednesday.

[00:47:07] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[00:47:08] Well, I heard – you know, it's like if you heard it 10 minutes later.

[00:47:13] That's right.

[00:47:14] But I did see Neal yesterday on the floor.

[00:47:17] Okay.

[00:47:17] Spent my Sunday night there, and he said – he thought it would be Wednesday.

[00:47:20] And so Wednesday it will be debated, and it will be an interesting conversation because the tax reform package so far has been all the good stuff.

[00:47:29] The tax – you know, the income tax reduction, it's been the good stuff.

[00:47:36] Now we've got to figure out a way to pay for it.

[00:47:38] And these, I think, are going to be bills that are going to be harder to move through the process.

[00:47:41] I think they move because I do think that the governor has taken a very strong leadership position in this,

[00:47:48] and he owns it much more than any other governor has done in the past, and he's pushing very hard.

[00:47:56] He made that clear with his opening statements in committee last week.

[00:48:00] He's also made that clear with individual legislators who have said they can't support it.

[00:48:05] So the power of being the governor in the state of Louisiana.

[00:48:08] So – but, yeah, these are things that I think people need to be focused on and, you know, love to have more conversations about the other parts of the package as they move through.

[00:48:22] But, you know, we're what?

[00:48:25] So we're – the session has to end –

[00:48:27] 25th.

[00:48:28] On the 25th.

[00:48:30] We're the 11th today.

[00:48:31] Yeah, so you got – you're right at two weeks.

[00:48:34] Two weeks from now it has to end.

[00:48:36] No bill has been passed out of the House yet.

[00:48:39] No bill has been scheduled.

[00:48:40] But they passed the vote.

[00:48:42] It's a two-third vote that it took to suspend the rules to allow them to, you know, not hold pieces of legislation over just for the people that are listening.

[00:48:50] You know, when a bill comes out of committee, it takes a day or two before it gets heard on the House floor.

[00:48:54] If it's a House bill, for example, when you suspend the rules and say we don't want any lieovers, you know, then you're just going boom, boom, boom.

[00:49:03] You go straight from the committee if you want to.

[00:49:05] Go straight from the committee to the floor, then straight from that floor to the opposite chambers committee.

[00:49:09] And, again, that's all if you want to.

[00:49:11] You can move.

[00:49:11] We passed a bill.

[00:49:12] Sandy and I passed a bill one time.

[00:49:14] If you remember, they had that rule where you said if you had companion bills and they both passed over at the same time, you could skip one committee part of the process.

[00:49:22] The dual bill process, yeah.

[00:49:23] Right.

[00:49:23] And we did that in 12 days.

[00:49:24] We passed a bill in 12 days.

[00:49:26] So that was pretty cool.

[00:49:27] But they took that rule away.

[00:49:28] Well, sure, they took that away because the people like you and me who knew how the operation worked could get a bill through the process pretty quick, which, frankly, that's one of the strengths that I – there's a couple of strengths that I see about Louisiana's legislature and their process.

[00:49:40] And that is I feel like that, you know, a lot of people say, oh, it's a slow process and so on and so forth.

[00:49:47] No.

[00:49:48] The slow process is really designed to get – to ensure that the public has an opportunity to be engaged in that process.

[00:49:56] Everybody gets heard and gets to participate.

[00:49:58] That's right.

[00:49:58] That's right.

[00:49:59] And the other part of it is is that we don't do dual objectivity, right?

[00:50:02] We – Congress, you could have a bill about walnuts and you could put aircraft carriers in it because there's no rhyme or reason to what a bill does or says.

[00:50:13] I mean, we – I think one year we had a foreign bill.

[00:50:15] I don't remember.

[00:50:16] It's kind of like the judiciary committees in the Senate, A, B, and C.

[00:50:19] That's right.

[00:50:20] You could put whatever you want.

[00:50:20] That's right.

[00:50:21] But we have dual objectivity and germaneness, and so we do that well.

[00:50:26] And so I really do commend –

[00:50:28] No, we do.

[00:50:28] And we can expedite major issues in Louisiana still.

[00:50:32] We can – you and I could take a bullet point conversation, three bullet points, and nine months to a year from now turn it into a law that positively affects not only the 4.5 million residents of Louisiana, but everybody attached to them.

[00:50:45] And you can't do that in D.C., okay?

[00:50:48] But you and I could do that right now, and we could do that on five or ten issues.

[00:50:51] We'd have to have other people helping us and other people participating.

[00:50:54] But in D.C., and D.C. is the perfect example, D.C., because you go there and you put something on a piece of paper there, and it'll stay on that piece of paper on a list, and it'll take you a long time to either work your way up or down that list depending on which way you need to go.

[00:51:09] And it could be forever in D.C.

[00:51:11] And meanwhile, you're not helping people.

[00:51:14] And that's the thing I really enjoy about what I do as a living, for a living.

[00:51:19] But not only that, doing it in this process, the Louisiana legislative and political process.

[00:51:24] It is a usable process, and anybody that points their finger at it and scoffs and says it's corrupt and it doesn't do me any good, you're just not using it.

[00:51:32] The blame's on you.

[00:51:34] Just get up, make a phone call, send a text, send an email, show up at a meeting, okay?

[00:51:39] And maybe you're too busy, but you're not, okay?

[00:51:42] So my point is it's there for you, the whole process, everybody.

[00:51:46] I tell my clients all the time, every time I speak to a group, that the most powerful voice in Louisiana government is an individual constituent.

[00:51:55] That I think both you and I are good lobbyists.

[00:51:57] We can go talk to Senator Joe and say, hey, this is a good bill.

[00:52:01] I think it would be good for Louisiana.

[00:52:04] And he looks at it and says, yeah, it looks like it would be good.

[00:52:08] And then he comes back over and he says, David, Joe, I got three calls.

[00:52:12] I'm a little concerned about this.

[00:52:14] My constituents seem like they don't think it's a good bill.

[00:52:17] So we need to work through this.

[00:52:19] And so I always say that that voice of the constituency is the most powerful voice.

[00:52:25] It's one of the reasons that you all are so strong because you have your farmers who can jump on.

[00:52:29] And I'm not just picking, but like your people at Farm Bureau are incredibly powerful because they know how to call people.

[00:52:36] They know how to get involved.

[00:52:38] And there's been issues.

[00:52:39] I remember when we passed direct access in the state legislature, everybody was against us.

[00:52:44] Law B was against us.

[00:52:46] The insurance industry was against us.

[00:52:48] The trial lawyers were against us.

[00:52:49] The medical board.

[00:52:50] Everybody was against us.

[00:52:51] We passed it with over a two-thirds vote in both bodies and got it signed by the governor.

[00:52:55] And that just shows you because those physical therapists said, this is crazy.

[00:52:58] We do it everywhere else, including the battlefield.

[00:53:01] It works.

[00:53:02] Why don't we do it in Louisiana?

[00:53:03] And so the point is, is that you can get your message out.

[00:53:06] And I agree with you.

[00:53:07] People need to be engaged in the process and when they are.

[00:53:11] If you and I as lobbyists can use a constituent voter's name in a conversation with a legislator, that's a nuclear bomb.

[00:53:20] I mean, that is just, there's no way to defend that.

[00:53:23] A legislator is going to go with that every time because they're dedicated to their constituents.

[00:53:28] And the other thing is I hear all the time from my clients is, oh, well, I don't know that legislator.

[00:53:34] They're not going to talk to me.

[00:53:35] I'm not really that important.

[00:53:36] They want to talk to you.

[00:53:37] They want to know you.

[00:53:38] They want to hear from you.

[00:53:39] And I can say that almost without pause.

[00:53:44] Every legislator wants to hear from their constituent.

[00:53:46] Now, they may disagree with you, but it is important for you as an individual constituent to get yourself on the record and to make sure that your legislators know you.

[00:53:56] It's not, I like for them to get to know them when they're not in the middle of a session, when they can go and say, hey, our kids go to school together.

[00:54:03] I go to this church.

[00:54:05] I know this.

[00:54:06] I do this for a living so that they have some sense of what they do.

[00:54:10] But it is a powerful.

[00:54:11] Right, and you're putting too much responsibility on the legislator if you're not educating them about who you are, who your family is, how y'all operate in the community, what your standing is.

[00:54:21] And if they go to the Capitol and you haven't talked to them, you or your friends and family, and they don't know what industries the district's in, what professions the district's in, and they vote away and you get upset about it, you have no right to be upset about it.

[00:54:34] I love that.

[00:54:35] And we are officially a part-time legislature.

[00:54:39] They're part-time.

[00:54:39] There's no way that I would do that for that money.

[00:54:42] And last night I was at the Capitol on a Sunday night, and I went around.

[00:54:47] We were, you know, there was only like maybe three lobbyists there and a couple of advocates.

[00:54:53] And I was, you know, they were in good spirits.

[00:54:57] But I was like, yeah, well, you know, you have to be here on a Sunday because you get paid the big bucks.

[00:55:01] And one legislator, I won't name them, but said to me, said, yeah, he said, I think when I average it out, I think there's probably a violation of minimum wage somewhere in this.

[00:55:11] But I appreciate you being on the show, Joe.

[00:55:14] And obviously you're going to be a regular part of this podcast as we move forward.

[00:55:18] Looking forward to it.

[00:55:18] And I want you to tell our audience a little bit about you and how to get in touch with you.

[00:55:23] Well, I'm Joe Mapes, M-A-P-E-S, mapesandmapes.com.

[00:55:28] We've been in Baton Rouge lobbying for 50 years now for me.

[00:55:31] And my wife is also a lobbyist, Sandy Mapes.

[00:55:35] A lot of people have met her.

[00:55:36] But we've got multiple clients like David and I talk about here.

[00:55:40] We're heavy in agriculture in our portfolio.

[00:55:45] And easy to get a hold of us, you know, just walk into the Capitol and say, where's the Mapes?

[00:55:51] But seriously, mapesandmapes.com and, you know, my phone number is 225-268-8572.

[00:55:59] You got any questions about anything we've talked about or anything in general, call me, text me.

[00:56:05] Always looking to help in any way that I possibly can.

[00:56:08] Yeah, and I sent you that one of your buddies commented on one of the shows and I texted that to you.

[00:56:13] Greg Como, he sure did.

[00:56:16] I still got to get in touch with him.

[00:56:17] I think I didn't know if he – I wanted to make sure I got that message out to you.

[00:56:21] No, Joe and Sandy are a rock star team.

[00:56:25] They're great.

[00:56:26] We work together on a lot of issues.

[00:56:27] I don't do much agriculture, but I work in insurance.

[00:56:30] Quarter horse breeders.

[00:56:32] Yeah, we work together in the equine space and first class big operation.

[00:56:39] And you're probably wondering why the Tappan Group is promoting Mapes and Mapes.

[00:56:43] Because in the ecosystem that is lobbying, we really all work together.

[00:56:47] We refer each other work.

[00:56:49] I think maybe we were the ones that may have referred you the –

[00:56:52] You did.

[00:56:53] Yeah, the quarter horse.

[00:56:54] The quarter horse breeders association.

[00:56:55] That's right.

[00:56:56] And you've referred work to us and we've worked together on a lot of health care issues.

[00:57:00] Because, you know, when we bump into each other, but we really work to get things done.

[00:57:04] And we try to do it.

[00:57:04] And we – for all – whatever people think about lobbyists, we really do try to do what's best for the people of Louisiana.

[00:57:11] We're looking for win-win situations, which makes Louisiana a better place to be.

[00:57:15] Because we live and work here.

[00:57:17] And we can't go anywhere else, right?

[00:57:19] I mean, this is – we're stuck here because that's what we do for a living.

[00:57:22] We're tied to that capital and to this state.

[00:57:24] But also we love our state.

[00:57:26] And I know you do too.

[00:57:27] And so – but I appreciate, again, you being here.

[00:57:30] And we'll post all of the stuff up on how to get in touch with Joe.

[00:57:34] We appreciate our listeners tuning in.

[00:57:37] And until next time, we are the Pelican Bree.

[00:57:40] That was a great conversation with Joe.

[00:57:44] It was good to really dig down into the individual services and talk a little bit about how it might impact people's lives.

[00:57:53] Clearly, most of these services that are going to be taxed now are services that most Louisiana people use.

[00:58:00] And so while the entire tax package actually lowers some income tax and some other things,

[00:58:08] this is an area where the revenue is raised to offset what those changes might be.

[00:58:13] So we're glad that we could have that conversation.

[00:58:17] You know how it impacts you.

[00:58:19] You know that if you have a particular position on it, you should reach out to your local legislator

[00:58:25] because they are voting on these items now during this special session, this third special session of the Louisiana legislature.

[00:58:33] So thank you for joining us.

[00:58:36] As you all know, the best way to find us is to subscribe.

[00:58:41] That way when the podcasts come out, you're the first to know.

[00:58:43] If you follow us on social media, we always post on social media, Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter.

[00:58:51] Our handle on all of those social media platforms is at PelicanBrief225.

[00:58:57] That's at PelicanBrief225.

[00:59:00] If you would like to watch us, we videotape this.

[00:59:03] You can watch us on Spotify, but you can also watch us on our YouTube channel.

[00:59:07] And that handle for our YouTube channel is at ThePelicanBrief225.

[00:59:12] So as always, thanks for joining us.

[00:59:15] We would appreciate your feedback.

[00:59:17] We would also like to invite anyone who wants to come on the show to talk about what's going on during the Louisiana legislative session

[00:59:25] or any other things you want to talk about.

[00:59:27] We will schedule you and get you on the show.

[00:59:29] So until next time, I am David Tatman, and we are The Pelican Brief.

[00:59:41] The Pelican Brief is an Offscript production.