Special Session - Tax Reform with Jason DeCuir

[00:00:10] Welcome to The Pelican Brief, I am your host, David Tatman.

[00:00:32] Thank you so much for tuning in. As you know, in Season 3 of The Pelican Brief, if you've been listening, we have been focused in on the special session that Governor Jeff Landry has called.

[00:00:46] He's called the Louisiana Legislature into session beginning today, and they will meet until no later than November the 25th.

[00:00:58] The subject matter is going to be all things taxes, income taxes, services taxes, sales taxes, all kinds of taxes, taxes everywhere.

[00:01:08] So we thought it would be a great idea to bring in a tax expert. And so many of you know Jason DeCuir.

[00:01:17] Jason is a principal and an owner of Advantos Consulting. They do all sorts of work in the tax space.

[00:01:26] Jason is an expert, having worked for the Department of Revenue, having worked for a number of big tax outfits over the years.

[00:01:34] He is considered to be a local expert. Their company, Advantos, does a lot of business incentive work.

[00:01:41] They do work on sales and use tax, on property tax. When things get complicated, he's the guy that you go to.

[00:01:48] His team is tremendous, and they're great and always like spending time with Jason because in addition to being a tax expert in Louisiana, he's a friend.

[00:01:58] So, welcome to the show, and we'll now have our conversation with Jason DeCuir.

[00:02:06] Well, Jason, welcome to the Pelican Brief. Thank you so much for being here.

[00:02:11] Well, thank you, David. Thank you for having me.

[00:02:13] And man, I'm just looking around and impressed with all this equipment that you have in here.

[00:02:18] And the fact that you know how to operate it, my, how our industry has changed, right?

[00:02:23] From back in the pencil and paper and even the no cell phone days.

[00:02:26] No kidding. You know how they tell the men from the boys, huh? By the price of their toys.

[00:02:32] If you're willing to invest the money, you could get just about anything these days.

[00:02:36] And as I mentioned to you earlier, AI has changed the game on the production of these things.

[00:02:41] And so we're really excited.

[00:02:42] Well, you know, you and I go way back. We've worked together for a long time.

[00:02:46] I guess I first met you when you worked with the Department of Revenue. Is that right?

[00:02:50] Yeah, I think that's right. And, you know, I tell people, David, that I think I lost my mind twice in life.

[00:03:00] Once I ran for the state Senate.

[00:03:02] I do remember that.

[00:03:03] And then the other, I decided to go into state government.

[00:03:06] And at that time, you still had this whole kind of mantra, I can go in and help change the world.

[00:03:11] And at that time, the governor, Governor Jindal wanted to do tax reform and making it and was making it a major plank in some of the things he wanted to accomplish.

[00:03:21] And had an opportunity to go in the Department of Revenue and really work on that, which is honestly, when I look back on it, no, we didn't pass tax reform.

[00:03:30] I do believe we got the conversation going and we may hit on some of that today.

[00:03:36] But some of the features that you're seeing in this package have a lot of similarity to what he was wanting to do in terms of it broadening the sales tax base, maybe just a bit ahead of our time.

[00:03:47] Yeah, it's funny you say that.

[00:03:48] I was with a group of government relations professionals in New York.

[00:03:52] And one of the elderly members said there are no new ideas.

[00:03:57] They just keep coming back over and over and over again.

[00:04:00] But you're right.

[00:04:01] There are many elements of this that we've seen from the services taxes to so many other things which we'll get into.

[00:04:07] But by the way, you did a great job at revenue because when you were in revenue, then there was some cleanup going on.

[00:04:16] Yeah.

[00:04:16] And you guys went in, you guys and gals went in and fixed some things.

[00:04:20] And we work closely with the Department of Revenue with both alcohol and tobacco.

[00:04:25] And you guys fixed it up to where it's probably one of the more modern departments in the country.

[00:04:32] Well, it needed it.

[00:04:33] I mean, it needed to kind of catch up to the times where we are.

[00:04:37] And, you know, each of these agencies, you know, they're supposed to deliver services to the people of our state.

[00:04:43] And when that service drops to some degree, you've got to go in and you've got to fix it.

[00:04:49] And with a department as important as being on the front lines of collecting taxes, it's really important to make sure that we're getting the information out to folks so that they know how to remit the appropriate amount of taxes to the state and no more, no less.

[00:05:07] And that seems easy, but it can be a yeoman's task to get that to happen.

[00:05:13] And part of it is just getting the phones answered, right?

[00:05:16] You know, so many people with questions and setting up processes and procedures to do that.

[00:05:22] But, you know, in the three years I was there, I worked with three different heads.

[00:05:28] It started off with Cynthia Bridges.

[00:05:30] A lot of people forget the Jane Smith interim.

[00:05:33] Oh, I forgot about that.

[00:05:35] Yeah, yeah.

[00:05:36] And then Barfield came on as the tax reform plan was really, really heating up.

[00:05:43] Right.

[00:05:43] But learned a lot and got to interact with a lot of great people like yourself, David, and learned a lot from a lot of the advocates too.

[00:05:51] Yeah, well, it's good having you on this side of the rail because we get to ask you questions and you don't have to tow the company line.

[00:05:59] You can tell the truth.

[00:06:00] So I hear there's a special session.

[00:06:02] I've heard the same thing.

[00:06:04] And we're going to, it seems like a lot.

[00:06:08] It's certainly a very aggressive plan by the governor and in particular his lead man on that, Secretary Richard Nelson.

[00:06:17] And again, as we talked a little bit before, these are things that we saw from him as a legislator.

[00:06:23] Sure.

[00:06:23] But this is a much more comprehensive approach and it's a lot.

[00:06:28] Yeah.

[00:06:29] And look, I've studied tax reform and been a part of tax reform plans, not just in Louisiana, but all over the country.

[00:06:39] And I agree with you that this is a very ambitious package.

[00:06:44] I'm not saying that in a negative way.

[00:06:46] Right.

[00:06:46] I'm just saying that there is no person, individual, stakeholder, business group, nonprofit that is not impacted in some way by the changes that are being made.

[00:06:59] Nobody's left out of this.

[00:07:01] And a lot of people ask, well, why such an ambitious plan right now?

[00:07:08] And I think the answer to that is a couple of things.

[00:07:13] One, we've been like you said before we got on the show, we've been talking about this for a long time.

[00:07:21] I can't tell you how many study groups I've sat on or been a part of.

[00:07:26] We nicked around the edges in 2021 and those were some pretty good reforms, but that just moved us from about 46 or 44 worst rank tax climate in the state to number 40.

[00:07:40] So we're still in the bottom 10.

[00:07:42] And I think legislators want to see much greater movement faster than they've seen it.

[00:07:48] And the tax foundation often scores what the business tax climate is for each state.

[00:07:54] As I mentioned, we're constantly in the bottom 10 and the plan that they are looking to put forth on the table would move us from number 40 to eight if it passed as is.

[00:08:04] And that is just, you know, monumental, a leap to go there.

[00:08:10] Now, and you and I both know it's often difficult to pass a plan as is.

[00:08:14] We expect a lot of good discussion.

[00:08:16] And I think there'll be some changes along the way.

[00:08:20] But if they get the major tentacles of this, you're talking about a major overhaul that I think will be setting us up for a conversation in future years,

[00:08:29] the way that I see this plan is designed to ultimately talk about how we get rid of the personal income tax is one piece.

[00:08:37] And the second piece is how do we give local governments more control to start to fund those items that they need at the local level and less of it coming back from the state through appropriations and other things.

[00:08:53] That's the piece that I don't think jumps out to people when they look at the package.

[00:08:58] But when you start taking the property tax provisions out of Article seven, which have been embedded there and you move them to statute,

[00:09:06] you're that much closer to being able to make property tax changes in the future, which is obviously one of the life lines of parish and local government.

[00:09:16] And they depend on that. And if the state doesn't have to fund as many local initiatives, then you can use those dollars to begin to phase out the personal income tax over time.

[00:09:27] So I think that is a big discussion that will be had.

[00:09:30] A lot of those things aren't occurring in the package as is, but it is setting it up for those discussions in the future.

[00:09:37] And I think that's how we eliminate the personal income tax.

[00:09:41] And then the third piece is, believe it or not, David, we're in these budget deficit discussions again.

[00:09:46] And I think that is a big driving force behind the why now.

[00:09:52] We're sitting on about a $60 million deficit is projected to be $340 million for next fiscal year.

[00:09:59] And then if the point four or five doesn't get renewed, that's another $455 million that's not coming into the coffers.

[00:10:07] And so I think the administration wants to get ahead of that.

[00:10:12] They want to address it now and start to try to create some certainty, both with our tax structure and our budget structure,

[00:10:19] so that he doesn't have to deal with this special session after special session and year after year.

[00:10:24] And then there's another element, as I appreciate it, and you're the tax expert.

[00:10:29] As you know, I'm a John Curtis graduate, so I don't, you know.

[00:10:33] Y'all beat up on Catholic High a number of times, so don't remind me.

[00:10:36] That doesn't happen anymore.

[00:10:39] There's also another trigger that may be met soon that deals with a reduction through the budget stabilization fund

[00:10:48] that would reduce all income tax by 6%.

[00:10:51] And what is that, $200 million, $300 million?

[00:10:53] Yeah, that's correct.

[00:10:54] So in 2021, the way the reforms were set up, remember the voters had to vote in a constitutional amendment

[00:11:05] that would repeal our federal income tax deduction.

[00:11:09] So the taxpayers of this state would no longer get their federal income tax deduction

[00:11:14] or be able to deduct their federal taxes from either their personal income tax

[00:11:18] or their corporate income tax.

[00:11:20] In exchange, it would lower the rate.

[00:11:23] So that's how our personal income tax went from 6%, which is one of the highest rate,

[00:11:28] down to 4.25 where it is today.

[00:11:31] The thought and the triggers were set up differently on corporate versus personal income tax.

[00:11:37] And for personal income tax, if you met certain conditions, the rainy day fund was completely full and sufficient.

[00:11:46] They went back to 2018.

[00:11:48] They established a baseline.

[00:11:50] And if personal income tax started coming in greater than the baseline and it's a complicated formula,

[00:11:58] then that money just wouldn't go into the general fund.

[00:12:01] The agreement would be that that money would continue to go down to reducing personal income tax.

[00:12:08] On the corporate income tax side, a little different.

[00:12:12] The same type of trigger, but the trigger if met wouldn't go to reduce corporate income tax.

[00:12:18] You know, we have another tax on corporations called a corporate franchise tax.

[00:12:23] And that tax is is seen and viewed as more business unfriendly, more penal because it taxes the assets of your company,

[00:12:33] regardless of whether or not you have a profit or generate revenue.

[00:12:37] And that really stuck out like a sore thumb during covid because many small businesses had to shut their doors due to no fault of their own.

[00:12:47] Couldn't produce any revenue or profit.

[00:12:49] But yet we're left paying this franchise tax that had nothing to do with profits and was on their assets.

[00:12:56] And so we phased it out for the smaller businesses.

[00:13:00] So up to three hundred thousand of assets you don't pay the franchise tax on.

[00:13:04] But the trigger is tied to the franchise tax.

[00:13:08] Now, a lot of people believe where we are today, we could have hit that trigger.

[00:13:12] There's still conversations going on.

[00:13:14] And even if we didn't have the bill and the package that's going to repeal the the corporate franchise tax,

[00:13:20] some people believe that that trigger could go towards repealing it in any event the way that it's set up.

[00:13:27] Right. Right. Yeah.

[00:13:29] I and then so a couple of other elements elements I wanted to ask you about.

[00:13:34] Obviously, the services tax has is created quite a quite a stir.

[00:13:40] The massage therapist.

[00:13:41] I hadn't heard anything on that. Right.

[00:13:44] Well, I know lobbyists are in there, but I when it's so funny when they say they're going to tax lobbyists,

[00:13:50] they're actually not going to tax lobbyists.

[00:13:52] They're going to tax people who buy lobby services.

[00:13:54] That's right.

[00:13:56] But I do have a really interesting question about that, because you take a guy like well,

[00:14:00] I'm not going to name a name because I don't want to.

[00:14:02] So you take somebody who's the executive director of a major trade association state of Louisiana,

[00:14:08] and you know, they may be running a group self insurance plan.

[00:14:11] They may be putting on conferences, conventions, they could have 100 people on staff.

[00:14:16] And oh, by the way, they registered to lobby.

[00:14:18] How do you tax them?

[00:14:19] Yeah, I mean, that's I think those are some of the questions, David, not just with lobbyists,

[00:14:28] but a lot of the services that we're seeing.

[00:14:31] Right.

[00:14:31] Right now, we only tax eight services in Louisiana.

[00:14:35] They're now going to add 40 new services to the taxable base.

[00:14:40] They will all have definitions or need definitions.

[00:14:45] And the biggest thing is you need clarity.

[00:14:48] Right.

[00:14:49] I mean, because we have we're one of two states that don't have a centralized sales tax collection system.

[00:14:56] That means whatever definition is in law, the state can interpret it however they want to interpret it.

[00:15:04] And each parish under constitutional authority can interpret it however they want to interpret it.

[00:15:10] So, for example, going back to lobbyists, I know that's one of the functions you perform,

[00:15:16] but you probably perform many other consulting functions.

[00:15:21] Absolutely.

[00:15:21] And so how are they going to determine and who's going to be the czar to determine whether or not what David Tattman is doing is lobbying

[00:15:29] versus what David Tattman is doing as consulting?

[00:15:33] And how are those determinations going to be made?

[00:15:36] The other problem when you're talking about services,

[00:15:40] suppose that I engage David Tattman for lobbying services in East Baton Rouge.

[00:15:46] Boom.

[00:15:47] That's where we sign the contract.

[00:15:48] But then you perform those services in three or four different parishes for me.

[00:15:53] Right.

[00:15:54] Who gets the sales tax revenue now and at the local level?

[00:15:57] Is it East Baton Rouge or some of these other parishes get a piece?

[00:16:01] Because you may be representing me in multiple parishes.

[00:16:04] And so those are just many of the things that have to be figured out and what the rules of the game will be going forward.

[00:16:12] And where are we going to look to determine, you know, what is the actual activity of lobbying?

[00:16:20] Are we going to look at why you have to register?

[00:16:23] Or are we going to look at the actual contract and what is being performed?

[00:16:27] Right.

[00:16:27] And not to stay on lobbying, but it's what I know.

[00:16:30] Yeah.

[00:16:30] I mean, I know haircuts and lawn care.

[00:16:33] And, you know, my wife said I might have to start cutting the grass again.

[00:16:37] It might be too expensive.

[00:16:38] It's a joke.

[00:16:39] I definitely don't want to be cutting my own hair.

[00:16:41] You just got to charge your sales tax when you do it.

[00:16:45] But, you know, if you think about it and you look at it, and I know you're very familiar with this too, what is the definition of lobbying?

[00:16:51] Because it falls under the ethics laws.

[00:16:53] And it has a very clear definition, right?

[00:16:56] And there are only bills about six months out of the year because there are no bills until they're provisionally introduced, right?

[00:17:01] So that could be depending on the year, like in an odd numbered year, as late as February, but as early as, you know, March and as early as February.

[00:17:11] And then once the session sign-y does, there are no more bills, right?

[00:17:15] Yeah, right.

[00:17:15] They're all gone.

[00:17:16] I guess you might be able to make the case that if you're lobbying the executive branch for a veto or what have you, that that would continue.

[00:17:23] Right, sure.

[00:17:23] But for more than six months out of the year, there are no bills.

[00:17:26] And so that's going to be another interesting part of it.

[00:17:29] I would tell you that, and I say this because my clients listen to this, a lot of them do.

[00:17:35] I feel like about 30% of what I do is lobbying, 30% is consulting, and 30% is mental health services to calm everybody down and help them understand the problem.

[00:17:48] That part of your business is probably increasing right now.

[00:17:50] Well, I'm kind of thinking that I might need to get licensed for that, but I may be violating some practice act.

[00:17:56] But no, that's a great point.

[00:17:58] And that's exactly the issue.

[00:18:00] Are you going to look to whether or not you are considered a lobbyist under the ethical, under the state's ethics laws?

[00:18:07] And then you're going to say, well, everything you do is lobbying?

[00:18:11] Well, I don't think that's the right answer.

[00:18:13] I think you have to register to lobby because that is a function that you perform.

[00:18:20] But I really think it's going to be inherent that whether it's the Department of Revenue or local sales tax collectors, you've got to go to the contract.

[00:18:29] And you have to see what it is that you're performing for that particular client under that particular contract because what you're trying to do is tax the service, not the fact that you are a lobbyist in everything you do because you are a lobbyist is lobbying.

[00:18:45] I do have a – you know, I know you're in the middle of it and they always ask for your advice, but I do have a plan to create big surpluses for the state of Louisiana.

[00:18:52] So if the services tax looks like it's going to pass, just throw the lawyers in.

[00:18:57] Oh, yeah.

[00:18:57] And I mean – come on.

[00:18:59] Well, I'm sure that will go over well since there are no attorneys in the legislature.

[00:19:04] That's right.

[00:19:04] So that one is always easier to get through.

[00:19:08] But, you know, talking about the services, that's the only profession right now that is in.

[00:19:15] And the way that you interpret sales tax law is that if you're not specifically named as a service, then the others are excluded.

[00:19:24] Yes.

[00:19:24] And the important thing to understand about the services piece of the bill is not only are you adding 40 new services, we know the state rate is 4.45 percent, but the local rate will also be applicable.

[00:19:42] Okay?

[00:19:43] So you have to look at it from both rates even though they're handled, collected separately and they go their separate ways.

[00:19:50] And as you know, Louisiana, one of the problems is our state rate is low, parish rate is kind of high.

[00:19:57] When you combine the two, we now have one of the highest sales tax rates in the country.

[00:20:01] And that is holding us back.

[00:20:03] We average about 10 percent in the state when you combine the two.

[00:20:08] The only state that we compete with other than – is really Tennessee for the highest sales tax rate in the country.

[00:20:16] The other issue is that in this package right now, they're not proposing to centralize our sales tax base.

[00:20:24] And that's how you get into a lot of these.

[00:20:27] Everybody can interpret it however they want.

[00:20:30] The hope is that we will eventually have, like most states, one collector, one interpreter, one group that comes out and audits you.

[00:20:40] And for the business, you're interfacing just with one entity as opposed to having to deal with as many as 55, 56 entities in Louisiana.

[00:20:49] That's the real burden to doing business here.

[00:20:52] And that's why a lot of companies who have assets, resources, activity here have to hire more by way of administrative help in Louisiana than they do other states because our system is so rigorous to collect and remit sales tax.

[00:21:08] Yeah, we have a family friend, a couple that my wife and I are really good friends with.

[00:21:12] They own a wholesale operation that does hair care products for salons and things like that.

[00:21:17] They have a full-time person just for –

[00:21:19] Just for that.

[00:21:20] Yeah.

[00:21:21] Because there's just so many little intricacies, and you still have to file.

[00:21:26] You have to file zero.

[00:21:27] That's right.

[00:21:27] And so if one container of shampoo was sold in 10 saw powers, all of a sudden, you've got to file it anyway, but then you've got to go in and do that, and it becomes complicated.

[00:21:39] And I know the locals push back on the centralized sales tax collection, but it really is one of the – just kind of talking through it is not part of this session, but it is one of the ways that you can actually go in and really improve enforcement when it comes to things like mail orders and Internet-type things.

[00:22:00] Is that correct?

[00:22:00] Yeah, and I know you were kind of casually joking about it in terms of adding more money to the sales tax base by taxing attorneys.

[00:22:08] But if we really wanted to collect all the money that's due to us today, we would centralize our sales tax system.

[00:22:16] When the Supreme Court decided what we all know as the Wayfair case, and it made it legal to now collect sales tax from businesses who don't have a physical presence in the Louisiana, the Supreme Court came up with the nexus test, economic nexus test.

[00:22:37] And it now allows you to collect from retailers outside or businesses outside of your state, but only if you have a simplified collection system.

[00:22:49] And there are a lot of businesses that are popping up that sell into Louisiana remotely that do not have a physical presence.

[00:22:56] They are collecting and remitting to other states.

[00:23:00] They're not remitting to Louisiana because they claim that our system is unconstitutional according to that Wayfair case.

[00:23:08] And their theory is, come get me.

[00:23:11] Come audit me.

[00:23:12] I'm not going to do this because we're reading this constitutional case one way, and we don't feel like you have any jurisdiction over us because you have five different collectors in your state.

[00:23:23] We have the Uniform Local Sales Tax Board.

[00:23:25] We have the Department of Revenue.

[00:23:26] We also have each parish can collect their own sales tax, and we have the Remote Sales Commission.

[00:23:32] So it's like, how do you know which one to utilize at which time?

[00:23:35] And so that's why we're not getting the money that's due to us.

[00:23:39] If we just did that one thing, more money comes into the state without us having to increase taxes, change any laws, and we're getting our fair share.

[00:23:46] And as I appreciate it, too, different parishes have different tax collection.

[00:23:52] I was going to say schemes.

[00:23:54] I should say, you know, design, right?

[00:23:56] You've got sheriffs in some areas.

[00:23:58] Sometimes the school board is the tax collector.

[00:23:59] Yeah.

[00:23:59] So in parishes, there was a law that was passed around the 90s, and it basically said, so at one time, we had about 400 different sales tax collectors.

[00:24:11] And then in the 90s, they said every parish has to name one entity within the parish to be that single collector for the parish.

[00:24:20] The majority of the parish is named the school board, so the school board.

[00:24:24] The sheriffs are the collector in about seven or eight parishes.

[00:24:29] And then the council or the mayor's office is the collector in a handful.

[00:24:36] That's the way it is here in East Baton Rouge Parish, that the mayor's office handles that function.

[00:24:41] Yeah.

[00:24:44] Well, you don't expect anything relative to centralized.

[00:24:47] You don't expect that?

[00:24:49] I do not.

[00:24:50] I suspect there'll be a lot of conversation about it.

[00:24:53] Are we going to get there if we're adding more things to the base and making it more complicated in some degree for taxpayers to collect and remit?

[00:25:03] How do we simplify that process?

[00:25:05] And a point that you were making earlier, and this is my old Department of Revenue hat here working,

[00:25:11] what you try to achieve at the Department of Revenue is a high percentage of what we call voluntary compliance.

[00:25:19] And what that means is that is the most efficient, best dollars to collect because I don't have to stick an auditor on you.

[00:25:27] I don't have to stick somebody to send you one of these ugly love letters from the department.

[00:25:31] The more simple your system is, the easier it is for taxpayers to just voluntarily remit the right amount without having to come after them.

[00:25:41] And that's where we need to improve is our voluntary remittance percentages.

[00:25:48] Yeah, I, as you know, represent the Louisiana Association of Wholesalers, and we claim being one of the most effective tax collectors.

[00:25:56] We can't afford to not pay our taxes because there's so much volume running through our business that one little mistake could cost us a whole bunch of money.

[00:26:04] So we're happy to go buy those million-dollar rolls of stamps.

[00:26:08] And you got some unique stuff with excise taxes.

[00:26:10] Yeah, yeah, no doubt about it.

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[00:27:07] Back to the services taxes.

[00:27:10] Tell me, what's your estimate or what is the estimate on how much that generates?

[00:27:14] Yeah, so right now and what they're talking about, the bills as is, at the state level, just the services bill.

[00:27:24] Now, you got three sales tax bills.

[00:27:27] You got one that eliminates a number of exemptions in our code.

[00:27:31] Then you have a second one that creates a definition for digital goods.

[00:27:36] And then we'll now tax.

[00:27:38] They're trying to tax in-consumer things that were once tangible and now in their digital format,

[00:27:45] i.e., you used to collect sales tax from a CD when you walked into the CD store and bought it for your—

[00:27:51] Or blockbuster.

[00:27:52] Or blockbuster on a movie.

[00:27:53] We don't do it that way anymore.

[00:27:55] That's one of the ways our code is antiquated.

[00:27:57] So now we're going to call those things digital goods in the code, and they'll be subject to sales tax.

[00:28:03] So that's the second bill.

[00:28:04] And then, as you mentioned, the third bill is adding the 40 new services.

[00:28:08] It's the rough estimate is that at the state level only, not including locals, what they get,

[00:28:13] but you're talking about $700 million, somewhere in that range.

[00:28:18] So that's really where a lot of the money is coming from to pay for other pieces of the package.

[00:28:23] So how big is the digital piece?

[00:28:25] The digital piece is estimated to be about $130, $150 million.

[00:28:30] Yeah.

[00:28:31] So that might be the largest single chunk.

[00:28:33] Well, the services is going to be the largest single—that's $600, $700 million.

[00:28:37] The digital goods, $150.

[00:28:40] So you're now getting close to a billion dollars in revenue just between those two.

[00:28:45] So you mentioned—the first one you mentioned was cleaning up some of the exemptions.

[00:28:50] Is that in the—is that the pennies?

[00:28:52] Well, no.

[00:28:53] That's just going through and saying, hey, we have so many exemptions in the sales tax code.

[00:29:00] Some of them are not being utilized.

[00:29:02] Some of them aren't generating an ROI.

[00:29:06] Some of them—I mean, you've heard jokes about the Mardi Gras beads and the coin bouillon

[00:29:12] and all of that other stuff that everybody's kind of come in and created.

[00:29:16] So they're going in and reducing a number of those or eliminating a number of those.

[00:29:22] And then they're recategorizing exclusions to exemptions.

[00:29:28] So if you were once under—and the tax code is an exclusion from tax, you're now likely being moved to an exemption.

[00:29:38] And the reason that the department is doing that is all about when these things are in the gray area

[00:29:44] and you're in a dispute and you end up at the Board of Tax Appeals.

[00:29:47] If it is an exemption, then the taxpayer has the burden of proof to show you're exempt.

[00:29:54] But if it is an exclusion, the Department of Revenue has the burden of proof.

[00:29:59] And they were losing a number of these cases down at the board when they were kind of in the gray area

[00:30:05] that the judge would look to say, well, this is a tough issue.

[00:30:09] Since it's an exclusion, we're going to rule in favor of the taxpayer

[00:30:13] because the department had the burden of proof.

[00:30:15] Now and all, that's being moved to an exemption.

[00:30:18] So you better be certain if you're eligible or are qualified for some of these things

[00:30:24] because if you do end up in a dispute, you're going to have the burden of proof

[00:30:27] in order to prove that that exemption applies to you.

[00:30:31] If not, then you'll end up not prevailing in court.

[00:30:35] Well, I just will tell you that as far as the tax on—back to the government relations professionals,

[00:30:40] I don't really care about the tax.

[00:30:42] I just don't want to be a tax remitter.

[00:30:44] Yeah.

[00:30:45] That's the hardest part.

[00:30:46] Well, and that's because of what we're talking about.

[00:30:48] And I think that is a great point, David.

[00:30:51] You know, you're now bringing in many taxpayers who've never had to register,

[00:30:58] create a sales tax account, or have ever had to deal with the sales tax collection process.

[00:31:06] In fact, as you know, I've talked to many lobbyists over the years,

[00:31:09] and they're like, hey, tell me why centralized collection is so important.

[00:31:14] Tell me what some of the real issues are.

[00:31:17] Well, now they're about to find out, because they're all going to have to go set up sales tax accounts,

[00:31:22] not just at the state, but at the local level.

[00:31:25] They're going to have to jump onto the parish e-file system.

[00:31:28] They're going to have to set up separate bank accounts to ensure that there's no commingling

[00:31:32] of the sales tax you collect with your personal accounts.

[00:31:36] And then you're going to have the pleasure of going through and having to make the right determination

[00:31:40] of which parish I should file in and who's owed some of this sales tax over my lobbying contract.

[00:31:47] A lot of are going to come back to me and say, we understand the issue now.

[00:31:52] Well, it seems like you're going to get a lot of work helping all those lobbyists set that up.

[00:31:56] Yeah.

[00:31:57] Yeah.

[00:31:57] Yeah.

[00:31:58] Yeah.

[00:31:58] It's going to be an interesting conversation and obviously one that we've already heard.

[00:32:04] And no one likes change, but if you're going to change the state of Louisiana, I am of the belief that right now,

[00:32:14] and you may be able to answer this, that I got to think the vast majority of people in Louisiana are probably paying 3% or less now.

[00:32:24] Right?

[00:32:24] What is, if you're middle low income, which are-

[00:32:27] Oh, you mean with regard to personal income tax?

[00:32:29] Yeah, personal income tax.

[00:32:30] Yes.

[00:32:31] Yeah.

[00:32:31] No, that's right.

[00:32:32] I mean, 3% is our middle bracket rate.

[00:32:37] Okay.

[00:32:38] So it captures the middle class and then everybody-

[00:32:41] And then, but look, it gets to, it kicks in at the top rate at $25,000.

[00:32:48] Wow.

[00:32:48] So you're not talking about a lot.

[00:32:51] So that's why they're taking the standard deduction and giving you 12,500 because that was the first bracket.

[00:32:58] Okay?

[00:32:58] And it was a 1.85% rate.

[00:33:01] So if you didn't give a deduction or a standard deduction up to 12,500, those that make less than 12,500 would argue,

[00:33:09] I'm getting a tax increase because we only have one rate.

[00:33:12] It's 3% and I was paying at 1.85%.

[00:33:15] So with that 12.5 or 12,500 standard deduction, nobody will pay tax up to 12,500.

[00:33:24] And then everybody will pay it at 3%.

[00:33:27] Right.

[00:33:28] Right.

[00:33:28] So there are a lot of other elements in the package.

[00:33:32] I saw where Lieutenant Governor Billy Nungesser came out.

[00:33:37] Have you seen that story yet?

[00:33:38] I have not seen you.

[00:33:39] Breaking news to me here.

[00:33:40] Yeah, breaking news.

[00:33:41] I'm going to put a little sound effect with that little typewriter thing.

[00:33:44] Breaking news right here on the Pelican League.

[00:33:45] I guess I've had my head buried.

[00:33:47] Too much.

[00:33:48] You know?

[00:33:48] It came out today.

[00:33:50] And he...

[00:33:51] Did he say who won the president's race?

[00:33:54] Yeah, he did.

[00:33:55] But he won't be right.

[00:33:56] No, just kidding.

[00:33:57] No.

[00:33:57] I've already predicted that.

[00:33:59] I predict that Louisiana will...

[00:34:01] Trump will carry Louisiana.

[00:34:02] That's the only prediction I got.

[00:34:04] That's a safe prediction.

[00:34:05] We had...

[00:34:06] Do you care to opine on the mayor's race?

[00:34:08] You probably don't want to go there.

[00:34:10] I have an opinion, but I think that...

[00:34:14] I think that I'm going to leave that alone.

[00:34:18] I have...

[00:34:18] You got close to not leaving it alone.

[00:34:20] I did.

[00:34:21] I actually...

[00:34:22] Yeah, it was almost...

[00:34:23] They asked me if I was running for mayor.

[00:34:25] I said, no, I'm running from the mayor's office.

[00:34:35] It's not.

[00:34:36] No one calls you and tells you what a great job you did.

[00:34:39] They always call you and tell you what you didn't do well.

[00:34:41] But no, Billy Nungesser's deal, it has to do with one of the tax changes that has to

[00:34:49] deal with...

[00:34:50] And again, I won't be articulate on this, but it's like a 0.03% that goes into a fund.

[00:34:57] Yeah.

[00:34:58] And now he is saying that he doesn't want that because he will now have to go to the legislature

[00:35:04] and beg and beg against...

[00:35:06] I don't know if he used the word beg, so I don't see Billy as a beggar, but I didn't

[00:35:10] want to disparage him on that, but have to go and compete against education and other

[00:35:15] things like that.

[00:35:16] And he just feels like that the work that he does in tourism, and really he actually talked

[00:35:20] about film and being connected, that that's a big tourism driver and so on and so forth.

[00:35:25] But as a solution, he may file his own bill on a...

[00:35:30] Is it swale?

[00:35:32] A swale tax?

[00:35:33] Yeah.

[00:35:33] You would tell me, tell us about that?

[00:35:35] So in terms of...

[00:35:36] And there's two things I think the lieutenant governor would be vocal about.

[00:35:40] One, their office is where I thought you may have been going, handles historic rehab and

[00:35:49] instructions.

[00:35:49] He brought that up.

[00:35:50] Yeah.

[00:35:51] And the historic rehab and tax credit program is sunsetting.

[00:35:56] And so their office is the one who certifies the historic sites and tries to put historic

[00:36:02] properties back into commerce.

[00:36:06] Which is, by the way, a great program.

[00:36:08] Good program.

[00:36:09] Yeah.

[00:36:09] The other one, which you're mentioning is a lot of people don't realize this, and you're

[00:36:14] right.

[00:36:14] And honestly, I hadn't been looking at this piece of the package.

[00:36:19] Um...

[00:36:20] But the governor is as interested in budget reform as he is tax reform.

[00:36:28] And we hadn't talked a lot about constitutional Article 7 and the rewrite, but they're moving

[00:36:35] a lot of dedications out of constitution and into statute.

[00:36:40] And when you do that, as you know now, uh, when they're constitutionally protected, they're really

[00:36:46] protected.

[00:36:46] Right.

[00:36:47] When you move them to statute, well, depends on each year what the legislature...

[00:36:51] And you don't have to go to the electorate.

[00:36:52] You don't have to go to a vote of the people.

[00:36:54] And we're setting up our property tax structure, as I mentioned, like that, but we're also

[00:36:58] setting up our budget structure.

[00:37:00] And I get it.

[00:37:01] Uh, we've been talking years and years, and many legislators have always said, I know

[00:37:07] people and citizens complain about our budget situation, but our hands are tied in many ways

[00:37:12] because we don't get to administer a lot of the revenue that's collected because it's

[00:37:18] all dedicated away, and it doesn't give us a lot of wiggle room to manage budget problems.

[00:37:23] And I completely understand that.

[00:37:25] But going to what the lieutenant governor was talking about, our four cents and now our 4.45

[00:37:31] is really made up of four provisions.

[00:37:34] We have a two percent tax we collect, a one percent and a one percent.

[00:37:39] And then when, uh, Governor John Bell came in, we, we created that fifth and that, that,

[00:37:45] that, that clean penny.

[00:37:46] And that created where the 0.45 is today on one of those 1% levies.

[00:37:52] The lieutenant governor is dedicated a certain percentage of that 1% to do marketing and tourism

[00:38:03] to promote the state.

[00:38:04] So he gets a percentage of that 1%.

[00:38:07] And I hadn't thought about it.

[00:38:08] When you start loosening up some of these dedications, apparently that's one of the

[00:38:12] dedications that they're, they're eyeballing or looking at.

[00:38:16] And if that were to be eliminated, I'm assuming what the lieutenant, I didn't hear it, but I'm

[00:38:20] assuming what the lieutenant governor is saying is now I've got to go jump in the fray in the pot

[00:38:26] with everybody else and fight for an appropriation each year on how much money I have to market,

[00:38:32] promote the state for tourism and that nature, and definitely get that concern.

[00:38:36] And, uh, to your point, um, you know, there's a lot of people in that bucket with, with what

[00:38:41] they are doing and change is never easy.

[00:38:43] Uh, we talk about all these things and we say, we need to get them done and we need to

[00:38:48] update our system and we need to make it more competitive.

[00:38:51] But then when we start doing it, uh, people get nervous.

[00:38:53] Uh, and, and I get that both.

[00:38:55] And it's not just on the business side.

[00:38:57] I mean, this, this plan, uh, impacts parishes differently.

[00:39:01] Some parishes rely heavily on inventory.

[00:39:04] Some parishes did not, you know, some parishes are more manufacturing intense.

[00:39:08] Some are not.

[00:39:10] And so, uh, uh, you know, there is, there is a lot of, we have to have some baked in trust,

[00:39:17] uh, in this plan.

[00:39:18] And I think that's what a lot of the discussion is going to be about, but the, the, the, the,

[00:39:24] just the common tendency is I'd rather keep the revenue I have today than, then get rid

[00:39:30] of some revenue and hope that some is going to come back in the future.

[00:39:33] And that's tough.

[00:39:34] And I get that, but, but, uh, if we're ever going to get where we need to go, we're going

[00:39:38] to have to really change the system.

[00:39:39] Yeah, there's no doubt about it.

[00:39:40] Well, the, um, you know, I, I, the historic tax credit thing to me, it's not something

[00:39:46] I work in.

[00:39:47] So, you know, all full disclosure, I'm not lobbying in case somebody wants to come tax

[00:39:51] me on it, but it's a great program because it, it, it's not only like a, a beautiful or

[00:39:57] historic structure in new Orleans or Baton Rouge or Alexandria, but in, you know, Tallulah

[00:40:02] or in Bunky, these downtown areas that they can sort of, you know, rehabilitate and sort

[00:40:09] of bring back to their grandeur.

[00:40:10] And so it really does have an impact across the state.

[00:40:13] And I think it's a very popular.

[00:40:15] No, I mean, it doesn't matter what jurisdiction you're in, what parish you're in, there's

[00:40:19] going to be some historic properties all over.

[00:40:22] And, uh, that is a program that has been utilized to ensure that we're putting those, um, uh,

[00:40:31] structures back into commerce and also, uh, keeping a piece of history alive.

[00:40:35] Uh, the lobby building, which you know, I'm very familiar with was done with the historic

[00:40:41] tax credit.

[00:40:41] There you go.

[00:40:42] Do you think they're going to ask for their money back?

[00:40:44] No, I'm just kidding.

[00:40:45] I feel the same way.

[00:40:47] And I know Billy does too about the, uh, the film program.

[00:40:49] We've worked really hard on that.

[00:40:51] We've scaled it back.

[00:40:52] Uh, you know, I, and again, for all many changes, full disclosure, it's probably one of the best

[00:40:57] run programs in the country.

[00:40:59] Uh, we, the, the people at LED have been great.

[00:41:02] Uh, we have, uh, you've had hundreds of millions of dollars in infrastructure.

[00:41:06] You now have a 50 cent up in, uh, G unit studios.

[00:41:11] And the cool thing about what they're doing up there for Northwest Louisiana is that a lot

[00:41:16] of these studios, they have to go out and recruit, uh, the productions, you know, uh, you know,

[00:41:22] whoever to come in and do their production there.

[00:41:25] Uh, he has content.

[00:41:27] So 50 cent has content.

[00:41:28] So I believe five years, I could be off on that.

[00:41:30] And I don't want to speak for him.

[00:41:32] He has his own lobbyist that he can pay taxes on.

[00:41:34] Uh, but, uh, it is something that has, it's created an ecosystem that I don't think is really

[00:41:40] ever captured in those studies.

[00:41:43] Well, first off, it's one of the only programs of its kind that actually has to do an economic

[00:41:47] impact study every two years.

[00:41:49] But, uh, there's an ecosystem out there.

[00:41:51] So you probably know I've done a little acting poorly and, uh, directed a couple of films,

[00:41:57] done a couple of, uh, of, uh, uh, documentaries and I've never received the credit.

[00:42:02] But if, but for that program, I wouldn't have the resources to be able to do that.

[00:42:07] The talent is unbelievable.

[00:42:09] And when you see my beautiful editing of this episode, you will know where that came from.

[00:42:14] David, I'm impressed by this.

[00:42:16] You know, the only, the only thing that I would correct you on is what the young people, uh,

[00:42:22] correct me on, uh, is that it's not 50 cents.

[00:42:25] It's 50 cents.

[00:42:26] 50 cents.

[00:42:27] Okay.

[00:42:28] I don't even know.

[00:42:29] I, uh, you know, I guess.

[00:42:31] You can tell I got, I got kids that are still in high school and in elementary school.

[00:42:35] So they're always quick to correct me on my pronunciations.

[00:42:39] I just tell them, don't spell it like that on your, on your test in school.

[00:42:43] I love it.

[00:42:44] So one thing we didn't dig into, and you mentioned it briefly was the constitutional changes.

[00:42:49] Do you want to touch on those just a little bit with a little specifics about what, what

[00:42:53] would change?

[00:42:54] This is a big deal.

[00:42:55] Uh, and, um, this kind of, I think sets up the stage for what Louisiana could look like

[00:43:03] in the future.

[00:43:05] Uh, we, we know that there was an attempt to have a constitutional convention in the previous

[00:43:12] session.

[00:43:13] Uh, they didn't get there, but a lot of that was spearheaded by wanting to do tax reform.

[00:43:19] And the issue with having multiple amendments on the ballot that are all tied to a holistic

[00:43:28] package is what we saw in 2021, right?

[00:43:31] We had two tax provisions on the ballot, but the people only returned one back favorably,

[00:43:37] which is why we don't have a centralized collection system today.

[00:43:41] So the thought was, okay, we're not going to have this grandiose, uh, uh, constitutional

[00:43:47] convention, but instead of piecemeal and amendments, let's just rewrite article seven.

[00:43:54] That's where all the tax provisions are housed.

[00:43:56] And instead of requiring four or five votes, the people just decide, Hey, do I want this

[00:44:01] or not?

[00:44:02] Which will be a major component of tax reform.

[00:44:05] And I, all I have is one vote, uh, up or down.

[00:44:08] And, and, and that makes it a little bit easier from a process standpoint, just breaking

[00:44:13] it down a little bit.

[00:44:14] The big element is property tax.

[00:44:17] That's where, uh, and the easiest example, uh, is the way that, uh, your, your home is

[00:44:24] taxed from a property tax standpoint.

[00:44:26] You take the fair market value of your home, call it a hundred thousand dollars.

[00:44:31] And only 10% of that, uh, home is, is, is, is taxed.

[00:44:37] And then you apply it to the military.

[00:44:38] All of that stuff is in the constitution.

[00:44:41] Okay.

[00:44:42] Uh, the fact that how we handle inventory tax, that's all embedded in the constitution.

[00:44:48] What they're trying to do is take a lot of the property tax provisions and move it over

[00:44:54] to the statute.

[00:44:55] Okay.

[00:44:55] They're not necessarily changing those percentages.

[00:44:58] Uh, the only one that they're looking to modify by statute is the inventory and they

[00:45:03] want to give parishes the option to exempt inventory from a tax perspective in their parish.

[00:45:09] You can't even give that option if it's embedded in the constitution.

[00:45:13] It's a mandate.

[00:45:14] So you're moving all of that over everything ironically over, but the homestead.

[00:45:19] I also, ironically, I saw as I was on the way over here, Dessa tells filed a bill dealing

[00:45:24] with the homestead.

[00:45:24] I haven't even opened it up, but I need to take a look at it.

[00:45:27] Uh, but anyway, they're moving all that over to statute.

[00:45:30] And what they are hoping to do in the future is to be able to have a conversation with the

[00:45:36] people of this state and saying, Hey, look, local governments, now that this is in statute,

[00:45:41] uh, you now have the power to control your property tax revenue.

[00:45:46] Where is it required at a vote of the people in the constitution?

[00:45:48] And if they're willing to say, yes, we'd like more control of that.

[00:45:53] And then we won't come ask y'all for funding of certain things.

[00:45:56] We know a lot of teacher and sheriff things are funded out of the state budget.

[00:46:01] Even those are, those are more local type type affairs in exchange.

[00:46:05] If they can create that deal over time, then the state can use those savings to eliminate

[00:46:11] the personal income tax.

[00:46:13] What does that look like?

[00:46:14] Well, that makes us look a little bit more like we're moving towards Texas, right?

[00:46:18] Uh, Texas is more dependent on property tax at the local level in exchange.

[00:46:23] As you know, they have no personal income tax.

[00:46:25] Uh, Richard, uh, the secretary, uh, um, made no mistake about it that, uh, uh, you know,

[00:46:33] when he was running for governor that he felt like Texas was a good model.

[00:46:36] He compared a lot of our out migration with to some of these issues we're having and why

[00:46:41] people are going to Texas.

[00:46:42] And, uh, he feels strongly that our system should look more like that.

[00:46:46] So although again, I want to stress that's not happening immediately, they're setting up

[00:46:51] our tax structure through article seven.

[00:46:53] So, so is there a provision in there or is it just the current law should know this?

[00:46:59] Uh, but the, if, if it were to pass that constitutional amendment was put in statute, it would still

[00:47:04] need a two thirds vote of the legislature.

[00:47:07] Great question.

[00:47:08] So, um, I think there could have been, uh, an area of ambiguity and it, and, and one of

[00:47:14] the things, as you know, in the state, it takes a two thirds vote to raise taxes.

[00:47:19] Right.

[00:47:19] Uh, but that does, does that, is the constitution referring to state taxes or all taxes because

[00:47:26] property taxes are local revenue.

[00:47:28] Right.

[00:47:28] So what did the constitution mean?

[00:47:31] Well, to not have to have that question answered, they're going ahead in article seven and saying

[00:47:37] it is going to require two thirds vote to, to, when they move it over to statute to, to

[00:47:41] change it just to resolve fighting over that, over that question.

[00:47:45] So that is a, that is one that people are often asking me, uh, and it would require two

[00:47:49] thirds vote to make most of those property tax changes.

[00:47:52] Another big one that's talked about in this state, uh, you know, ever since kind of John

[00:47:56] Bell came in and did, uh, the executive order is ITEP.

[00:48:00] ITEP is, is a constitutional program.

[00:48:03] It would be going to statute as well.

[00:48:04] Wow.

[00:48:05] Yeah.

[00:48:06] That's a, that's where the state makes recommendations about the, the locals providing a tax break

[00:48:12] on a project or.

[00:48:14] Correct.

[00:48:15] And, and, you know, um, local governments, as they've often stated, um, they felt that was

[00:48:22] a little unfair because they couldn't do anything about it because it's embedded in the constitution.

[00:48:28] My point is now that it goes over to statute, they don't control it in their parish, but

[00:48:34] they're a step closer.

[00:48:35] Now all they got to do is go talk, have that conversation with the legislature and the

[00:48:40] legislature would now be allowed to make changes to that program.

[00:48:43] Well, it, it really is interesting, you know, because, um, I, I go back and I don't, I don't,

[00:48:48] I don't, how old are you?

[00:48:51] Oh God, I'm trying to forget.

[00:48:52] David, I will tell you this in my mind.

[00:48:56] Um, I'm, I just, I'm, I just had a birthday and I'm about, uh, I'm one year away from what

[00:49:01] I call the big one.

[00:49:03] So, okay, good.

[00:49:03] Well, um, I thought you were going to say you just, uh, you, two days ago, you did a walk

[00:49:08] off, uh, field goal for Catholic high to win state or something.

[00:49:12] No, but I was watching the saints game on my birthday and of course we lost.

[00:49:16] I think we're on like an eight game losing streak and no coach.

[00:49:19] Well, the, the, um, yeah, the, uh, I remember fiscal reform.

[00:49:24] I don't know if you go back, but that was what 1990, I think.

[00:49:27] And, uh, and, uh, it was one of those things that if it would have been interesting had Buddy

[00:49:34] Romer, uh, not been so hard nosed and phased it out, that was, that was going to work.

[00:49:40] If they would have phased it out, it would work.

[00:49:43] But in the end it didn't.

[00:49:44] And that really changed things.

[00:49:46] I mean, you know, people, I think about all the local governments who, I guess in the U.E.

[00:49:50] long days had to come hat in hand and, and come back for money.

[00:49:54] And if you didn't do what you were supposed to, or you wasn't, weren't supportive of the

[00:49:58] governor, you didn't get a road, a bridge.

[00:50:00] So that is what, that is the big conversation.

[00:50:03] And I think you hit it more nail on the head because that is the practical impact or the

[00:50:09] political impact.

[00:50:11] And, and what they're trying to do is move away from, from, from, from that structure.

[00:50:15] Right.

[00:50:16] Right.

[00:50:16] Yeah.

[00:50:17] Well, it's going to be, it's going to be interesting.

[00:50:19] I, I, um, I, I don't, I'm not prognosticating anything because we have to get through the

[00:50:24] election today and then we'll see if I was right or wrong.

[00:50:28] But, um, I always appreciate your time because you, you and I have been friends a long time

[00:50:32] and you've done a lot of professional work.

[00:50:34] So tell us a little bit about your company and your law firm and what you guys do.

[00:50:38] Yeah.

[00:50:39] So, uh, at Vanis, uh, I'm, I'm, I'm there with, uh, my partner, Jimmy Leonard.

[00:50:43] I bought half of the company right at four years ago.

[00:50:46] Prior to that, I was working all over the country in this, in this space.

[00:50:50] Uh, and the, you know, the thought was, is that, um, you know, I could do this job a little

[00:50:57] closer to home and closer to my kids and, and, uh, kind of, uh, you know, take a, a company

[00:51:03] that's been around, uh, since 2006 with a great, great, uh, nucleus and, uh, begin to, begin

[00:51:11] to grow it, not just in Louisiana, but, uh, we now have an office in Houston and we're

[00:51:17] considering, uh, continuing to add, uh, to the advantage platform and we're doing work

[00:51:23] all over the country and, and, and regionally.

[00:51:25] Uh, and so, um, I'm, I'm kind of in my happy place with this.

[00:51:30] Uh, uh, and then on the law firm side, um, uh, you know, we kind of look at that as captive

[00:51:36] to the business because, uh, as you know, you try to go in and work these things out and

[00:51:41] try to get a, a compromise or an agreement, but unfortunately it doesn't always work that

[00:51:46] way and you find yourself in the board of tax appeals or one of the other courts.

[00:51:50] And, uh, instead of handing our clients off to somebody else and they got to get caught

[00:51:56] up to speed and all of that kind of stuff, we can, we can simply handle it, uh, right

[00:52:01] there in house, even if it turns into a, to a legal dispute.

[00:52:04] But I, you know, I, I live, eat and breathe, uh, tax policy, uh, uh, even more so now and

[00:52:11] since I gave up my football commentating gig.

[00:52:14] I know that you were so good at that.

[00:52:16] This past year, I just, with my son being a sophomore in high school, I just didn't have

[00:52:21] as much time for it, but I miss it.

[00:52:24] And, uh, I used to say on Friday nights, that's the only time I really wasn't talking tax policy.

[00:52:29] I was calling football games and had the opportunity to do a number of your, your son's football games.

[00:52:35] And that was exciting to see.

[00:52:36] He was a, he was a really good athlete.

[00:52:38] Yeah, he, he's fun.

[00:52:39] He's now working in Newport news, Virginia, building the John F.

[00:52:42] Kennedy aircraft carrier.

[00:52:43] Oh, wow.

[00:52:44] That's impressive.

[00:52:45] He works in the nuclear propulsion division.

[00:52:46] Very proud of him.

[00:52:47] Very proud of all my children.

[00:52:48] I have a lawyer who, uh, is, is, I have as a child.

[00:52:51] So if we do tax them and it's my fault, I'll have a, I'll get that.

[00:52:55] And, uh, but I do also have a daughter who's a CPA.

[00:52:58] So I did my, my, I did well.

[00:53:00] I married, uh, well, and the kids are smart like their mother.

[00:53:03] Uh, but I, uh, I will also tell you just back to your business.

[00:53:07] We, as you know, but our audience doesn't know whenever I or my clients have, uh, tax issues

[00:53:14] and when I say tax issues, it could be under understanding a particular application of a

[00:53:19] tax, you know, uh, helping us work through an audit or a misunderstanding or whatever, not,

[00:53:25] you know, our clients, we always send them to you.

[00:53:27] You are always gracious to call them and say, I can help you.

[00:53:31] I can't help you.

[00:53:32] Uh, but you always seem to be able to help them and do a good job.

[00:53:36] And we appreciate it.

[00:53:37] And I appreciate, look, David, I appreciate our friendship and the trust that you've had

[00:53:41] in me to, to be able to handle some of those issues for you, for your clients.

[00:53:45] I, uh, I know my lane and I don't get out of it.

[00:53:48] And when it gets into that other lane, that's when I'm telling them to call David Tattman because

[00:53:53] you're in a lane that I can't help you anymore.

[00:53:55] Well, what happens when you get to be older, like me, you, you have your own lane, but you

[00:54:00] have no filter.

[00:54:01] Yeah.

[00:54:01] And, uh, so get used to that.

[00:54:05] Touche up.

[00:54:06] Yeah.

[00:54:07] So I'm not certain I ain't there already.

[00:54:09] You just don't care anymore.

[00:54:10] Right.

[00:54:10] What are they going to do to you?

[00:54:11] So anyway, I appreciate you being here.

[00:54:14] Uh, he is Jason Dequeer.

[00:54:15] I am David Tattman.

[00:54:16] Jason.

[00:54:17] Thank you, David.

[00:54:18] As always.

[00:54:18] I appreciate you having me.

[00:54:19] And we look forward to having you back on the show again.

[00:54:21] All right.

[00:54:21] Let's do it.

[00:54:22] Thank you, my friend.

[00:54:23] Appreciate you.

[00:54:23] Take care.

[00:54:24] We are the Pelican Brief.

[00:54:24] Thank you.

[00:54:27] Wow.

[00:54:27] That was a great insight into all of the things that we will be talking about for the next

[00:54:35] couple of weeks during this special session.

[00:54:37] I want to thank again, Jason for being a part of our show.

[00:54:42] I'm going to get him back as, as things move through, but he really is an expert.

[00:54:47] Um, he and the folks over at advances are just amazing.

[00:54:50] And, uh, I will tell you as a personal, um, endorsement, uh, we use them whenever our clients

[00:54:56] or we have, uh, any issues or questions with taxes.

[00:55:00] And he's always great about talking to our clients and talking to us and letting him know,

[00:55:05] letting us know whether or not we need him.

[00:55:07] And so, uh, if you need Jason, uh, give him a call.

[00:55:10] Uh, he's easy to find.

[00:55:11] He's always at the Capitol.

[00:55:13] Um, that is our show for today.

[00:55:16] Uh, we're going to be watching things closely.

[00:55:19] Uh, our schedule is probably going to change up a little bit because as things happen, I'm

[00:55:23] going to try to get shows out.

[00:55:25] Uh, it takes a little bit of time and a little bit of effort, but we're going to continue to

[00:55:29] do that.

[00:55:29] So please, um, do us a favor and share our podcast with others.

[00:55:35] It's really important.

[00:55:36] Uh, if you would like it, uh, on, uh, our platforms, uh, go to Facebook and share, go to

[00:55:44] Instagram and share in Twitter, our handle at all of those, uh, um, social media platforms

[00:55:53] is at Pelican Brief 225.

[00:55:56] Uh, you can also watch us on YouTube.

[00:55:59] Uh, it, that is, uh, their handle there is at the Pelican Brief 225.

[00:56:06] And then you can also go to our website, which is pelicanbriefpodcast.com.

[00:56:12] You can email me at David at pelicanbriefpodcast.com.

[00:56:19] Uh, some people have, uh, weighed in on our show.

[00:56:23] If you would like to be a guest, please let us know.

[00:56:26] We are always happy to talk to people and have a, uh, intimate conversation about things

[00:56:33] that matter in our state.

[00:56:35] And so thanks again for tuning in until next time.

[00:56:40] We are the Pelican Brief.

[00:56:50] The Pelican Brief is an off script production.